Rickson Gracie vs Rolls Gracie

[Q mystic]

By that logic, Rolls is just doing BJJ. If it is logic.So you don't have a video? What about of just a judo guy moving remotely like him? Controlling the standup to ground (and more importantly, the ground to standup!) transitions?

Fighting back to the feet from the ground is one thing that wrestlers are unparalleled at and Judo guys may be the worst at. Wrestlers get a point for escaping. Judoka are conditioned to wait for the matte, or work for a reversal at best. Escaping is a skillset I have never seen utilized by any pure judo guy in any circumstances. Please, show contrary evidence. I've been waiting for years.
Because we all see that he is a hybrid grappler, not a pure wrestler, BJJ guy, or judoka.

Yes, really, he is just doing bjj. That is a fact. I'm just telling you it is judo, like a good friend of yours would. It is bjj tho.

Does a judo guy move remotely like him? Even if I can't produce a video? I think a thousand bjj friends of yours who have witnessed comps or trained with judoka will tell you, 'yes', it really isnt uncommon except for maybe tournys where everyone plays a little more safe. Or more 'wrestling' in this discussion, I guess. They have seen, typically, in the end, the judoka getting subbed.

I'm not sure what you mean in your last paragraph. From what I read, I totally disagree.

I will say this. Wrestlers are thee worst at escaping, followed by judoka and then bjjers. But, it can easily look like the other way around. Assuming you meant back. Turtle is another story but similar. btw, if striking, +1 judo in all of this.lol

HYbrid is hybrid. Rolls isn't hybrid anymore than I am. Less prolly.

p.s. It sounds like I'm trying to be a smart ass Chain. I'm not. I wont be from here on out. I wasn't but kinda I think.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Where did you see this list? I didn't even know it existed.

haha, seriously? no way

:icon_neut


RICKSON GRACIE
Date of Birth: Nov.21,1959.
Brazilian Lightheavyweight
7th Degree Black Belt in JuJitsu
Trained by Helio Gracie.
Height: 5ft. 10inch. Weight: 185lbs.
RING RECORD:
Undated Bouts:
Draw with Marcos Ruas
Defeated Saulo Ribiero
Defeated Jamelao
Defeated Aljandre Paiva
Defeated Leonardo Castello
Defeated Branca
Defeated Tom Haezle
Defeated Equada
1972:
Defeated R.Kilpatrick,U.S.Army by submission
1973:
Defeated Mateo Macia(1/10)by choke(0:14)
Defeated Ingnacio Paulino(1/13)by choke(0:12)
Defeated Ernesto Hoau(1/16)by choke(0:21)
Defeated Melio Acuna(1/19)by choke(0:16)
Defeated Guillermo"Billy"Sanchez(1/23)
Defeated Franco DeLaVechio(1/30)
Defeated Cheyenne Riveria(2/16)by clock choke(0:09)
Defeated Ed"Slim"Greene(2/21)
Defeated Hans"The Great"Stachel(2/28)
Defeated Raul Martinez(3/09)
Defeated Poli Vasquez(3/16)
Defeated Felix Polo(?)by rear mount(0:23)
Defeated Hector Grazos(?)by choke
Defeated Joa DaSilva(?)by choke
Defeated Wilson Rodrigues(?)
Defeated Eder Pires(?)by choke
Defeated Ado Jua(?)by submission(1:04)
Defeated Manoel Silva(?)by triangle choke(0:07)
Defeated Hector Girouz(?)by clock choke(0:11)
Defeated Luies Rodriguez(?)by submission(0:19)
Defeated Miguel BoggWright(4/2)
Defeated Fracno Rendarogue(4/6)
Defeated Ted Tackman(4/13)
Defeated Rouxton Grisoulyon(6/16)
Defeated Andoulet Voiter(6/23)
Defeated Steven Kentman(4/20)
Defeated Dadari Ryomu(5/14)
Defeated Frank Kentwick(7/14)
Defeated Kurasetsu Nisho(9/12)
Defeated Baltazar Silva
Defeated Costenito Montes
Defeated Benito Valdez
Defeated Alejandro Melendez
Defeated Tomas Chavez
Defeated Jeronimo Flores
Defeated Miguel Clemente
Defeated Romeo Castillo
Defeated Alex Cazares
Defeated Jorge Pacheco
Defeated Farolito Ayala
Defeated Armando Castro
Defeated Guillermo Guillen
Defeated Jose Rosa by TKO
Defeated Memo Lopez by armbar(0:08)
Defeated Pajarito Rivera
Defeated Raul Herrera
Defeated Felipe Pinder by submission(0:10)_
Defeated Arlindo Chang by choke(0:07)
Defeated Famoso Lara by triangle choke(0:16)
1974:
Defeated Felix Chaez(?) by rear choke(0:14)
Defeated Joa Klein(?)
Defeated Luies Steiner(?)
Defeated Hans Leisjua(?) by knockout
Defeated Miguel Garzo(?)
Defeated Eder Montes(?)
Defeated Poli Hernandez(?)
Defeated Chatieroux Chavez(1/3)
Defeated Luies Chavez(1/10) by choke
Defeated Roberto Neres(1/16) by choke
Defeated Jacquim Rodrigues(1/19) by choke
Defeated Nelson Danton(1/23)) by choke(0:09)
Defeated Helio Miesergauez(1/30)
Defeated Valintin Xavier(2/14)
Defeated Romero Baltazr(2/24)
Defeated German Soto(3/11)
Defeated Hernon Uribe(3/19) by submission(0:17)
Defeated Mauro Zenos(3/25) by submission(0:10)
Defeated Bekim Tonna(3/31) by clock choke(0:13)
Defeated Sergio Villegas(4/05)
Defeated Ronaldo Suarza(4/12)
Defeated Lachie Fernandez(4/19)
Defeated Shane Cartbel((4/22)
Defeated Voitier Readieson(5/17)
Defeated Rougatat Jeanette(5/1)
Defeated Fernando Andison(5/25)
Defeated Wayami Hiho(6/7)
Defeated Taisumei Futomo(7/1)
Defeated Fakuyari Roso(9/26) by knockout (0:19)
Defeated Brad Hedgewick(9/6)
Defeated Grisenoire Rendardier(5/9)
Defeated Val Xavier(10/12)
Defeated Fernandeo Sawlo(10/16)
Defeated Tony Dulseti(10/)
Defeated Hernando Lopez(10/19)
Defeated Humberto Gurreo(10/23)
Defeated Anicato Rodriguez(10/25)
Defeated Franciso Navaro(10/30)
Defeated Hip Yi-Lee(11/14)
Defeated Alcio Mierjous(11/18)
Defeated Gilberto Almonte(11/23)
Defeated Young Joffre(11/27)
Defeated Micheal Von-Ryan(12/06) by choke(0:07)
Defeated Mandingo(12/15) by choke(0:08)
Defeated KiKo Jineres(12/22) by choke(0:05)
Defeated Larry Robinson(12/26)by clock choke(0:14)
Defeated Daniel Santi(12/30)by triangle chock(0:09)

1975:
Defeated Mao Calderon(1/17)
Defeated Renato Juao(1/28)
Defeated Ricky Navarro(2/14)
Defeated Franco Mitsumi(2/26)
Defeated Al Simaratana(3/05)
Defeated Bansumei Nakushu(3/23)
Defeated Rudy Boggwood(3/28)
Defeated Joel Hodgeton(4/25)
Defeated Spencer Cartwood(5/18)
Defeated Jean Dobman(6/21)
Defeated Fernando Chaturue(7/7)
Defeated Jon Campham(7/24)
Defeated Bob Fairwood(8/20)
Defeated Julio Bonardier(10/2)
Defeated Jason Jean-Pierre(10/9)
Defeated Gomeo Boyd(10/16)
Defeated Hans Kruger(10/23)
Defeated Angel Rodrigeuz(10/30)
Defeated Fighting Fernandez(11/14)
Defeated Ado Ramos(11/21)
Defeated Pu Yi Tong(11/28) by submission(0:18)
Defeated Milnos Branski(12/06)
Defeated Shane Scott(12/13)
Defeated Julious Hernaou(12/20)
Defeated Ramiro Hojas(12/27)
Defeated Jean-Pierre Thoonen(12/31)
1976:
Defeated Kyle Sinclair(1/03)by tap out(0:15)
Defeated Gomeo Boyd(1/17)by TKO(0:17)
Defeated Mandingo(1/24)
Defeated Denton Duphas(1/30)
Defeated Manuel Rosado(2/21)
Defeated Romeo Acuna(2/27) by submission(0:17)
Defeated Miles O'Neal(3/10)
Defeated Henry Akerwick(3/22)
Defeated Sukari Kenfucu(6/1)
Defeated Ichiyaka Nakunaga(6/8)
Defeated Gyyaku Hiiki(6/10) by choke(0:23)
Defeated Bonquet Verdanoire(6/20)
Defeated Jean Dobman(6/21)
Defeated Boneture D'Marignon(6/23)by triangle choke(0:15)
Defeated Lewis Crawston(7/14)
Defeated Kaikari Okafuto(7/16)
Defeated Dagumi Tsuari(8/7)
Defeated Dagmar Valintin(9/6)
Defeated Carey West(9/16) by TKO(0:19)
Defeated Dave"Great"Scott(9/26) by TKO(0:14)
Defeated Marc Gomes(10/02) by choke(0:09)
Defeated Luis Cruz(10/06) by submission(0:11)
Defeated Ernesto Gallio(10/15)by submission(0:09)
Defeated Sergio Peralta(10/22)by tap out(0:06)
Defeated Casanova Marcalino(10/29) by armbar(0:18)
Defeated Walter Paez(11/16) by tap out(0:17)
Defeated Fabio Quintanna(11/26)
Defeated Raul Espinosa(11/30)
Defeated Henri DasSilva(12/08)
Defeated Wilfredo Silverstein(12/16)
Defeated Milo Morra(12/22) by triangle chck(0:47)
Defeated David Bloomberg(12/27) by TKO(0:12)
Defeated Manolo Zerous(12/29)
1977:
Defeated Hector Acevedo(1/14)
Defeated Felix Zarza(2/25)
Defeated Toshi Suzuki(3/31)
Defeated Hepiliato Cillanos(4/03)
Defeated Jack Vincense(4/20)
Defeated Chatarogue Randez(5/1)
Defeated Verd Verditure(5/10)
Defeated Greg Denston(4/23)
Defeated Dustin Edgerman(5/13)
DefeatedCastine Fansine(7/5)
Defeated Rend Voiturdier(7/9)
Defeated Rougiedier Vinier(7/15)
DefeatedAkikari Ichito(8/27)
Defeated Gensetsu Arisop(9/10)
Defeated David Cromworth(10/01)
Defeated Bud Patterson(10/28)
Defeated Eric Rudon(9/15)
Defeated Ricardo Salinas(11/02)
Defeated Bernardo Juas(11/05)
Defeated Ken Osawara(11/07)
Defeated Rio Kid(11/07) by tap out(0:26)
Defeated Felix Cabrera(11/12)
Defeated Robinson Crerew(11/16) by choke(0:58)
Defeated Phil Bishop(11/23) by TKO(0:33)
Defeated Rahman Benji(11/27) by tap out(0:17)
Defeated Alister Benjamin(11/30)by TKO(0:13)
Defeated Lachie Ternaes(12/03)by choke(0:42)
Defeated Henry Roundtree(12/06)by choke(0:15)
Defeated Jack Soo-Yip(12/08) by tap out(0:13)
Defeated Bennie Bloom(12/12)by tap out(1:37)
Defeated Bennie Bloom(12/17)by choke(0:33)
Defeated Diter Steiner(12/21)by tap out(0:21)
Defeated "Diego"(12/26) by tap out(0:08)
Defeated Roberto Gomes(12/28)
Defeated F.Reyes(12/29)
Defeated Mario Sosa(12/31)
1978
Defeated Soyami Ashihi(1/17)
Defeated Azutai Bano(3/24)
Defeated Erin Campwell(6/28)
Defeated Henry Huntman(7/6)
Defeated Kansuki Naoaki(724)
Defeated Lou Shefwick(7/24)
Defeated Kotowara Ryoso(7/26)
Defeated Yatai Heike(9/22)
Defeated Alvacir Klein
Defeated Euclidis Pendas
Defeated Viror DeOliveira
Defeated Roberto Morales
Defeated Enzo Paulino
Defeated Adalberto Gauisans
Defeated Avelino Morones
Defeated Edson Porcel
Defeated Carlos Mazon
Defeated Felix Rollo by triangle choke(0:13)
Defeated Ernesto Dos Silva
Defeated Pasqual Caceres
Defeated Leo Figueroa by clock choke(0:09)
Defeated Nevio DeLos Santos
Defeated Angel Doria
Defeated Fernando Acebal
Defeated Piero Arocha
Defeated "Guillermo" by KO(0:15)
Defeated Rudolfo Lara
Defeated Felix Jamao
Defeated Hitoshi Oki
Defeated Tetsuo Sakai
Defeated Masami Esashi
Defeated Akira Horiguchi
Defeated Koichi Fuji
Defeated Toshiaki Yoshida
Defeated Katsu Takechi
Defeated Hideo Matsuaga
Defeated Takao Nakatsu
Defeated Masashi Saijyo
1979
Defeated David Ramirez-Diaz(2/12)
Defeated Wilson Tao(2/13)by submission(0:56)
Defeated Andarogue Bonouous(3/2)
Defeated Spencer Boggton(3/14)
Defeated Boni Verditina(4/5)
Defeated Bayari Kotokuri(4/8)
Defeated Yogumi Okoya(5/3)
Defeated Chati Verdavor(7/16)
Defeated Shugami Omosho(7/19)
Defeated Kenmari Ryooko(7/23)
Defeated Jon Denworth(8/10)
Defeated Nakuwaru Waashi(9/15)
Defeated Yasaru Kyosu(10/11)
Defeated Victor Barrera(10/12)
Defeated Cesar Perez(10/14)
Defeated Sugar Garcia(10/17)
Defeated Memo Espinosa(10/19)
Defeated Mario Solis(10/22)
Defeated Chuy Bolanos(10/24)
Defeated Carlos Ursua(10/26)
Defeated Alfredo Borges(10/28)
Defeated Baba Villa(10/30)
Defeated Franco Gomez(11/07)
Defeated Julio Rios(11/09)
Defeated Salvador Lopez(11/16)
Defeated Enrique Manrique(11/18)
Defeated Arnoldo Rocha(11/21)
Defeated Rafael Mendoza(11/24)
Defeated Marcos Meneses(11/27)
Defeated Miguel Jimenez(11/30)
Defeated Rodolfo Romero(12/3)
Defeated Roman Enriquez(12/5)
Defeated Isidro Perez(12/7)
Defeated Mario Vega(12/09)
Defeated Adan Romero(12/12)
Defeated Tomas Zamora(12/14)
Defeated Armando Ibanez(12/17)
Defeated Raul Lara(12/17)by choke(0:10)
Defeated Mateo Ordonez(12/17)
Defeated Anacieto Tirado(12/17)
Defeated Eduardo Villegas(12/17)
Defeated Manuel Rosa(12/23)
Defeated Choma Amancio(12/23)
Defeated Ramiro Batoto(12/23)
Defeated Carboncio Orejel(12/23)
Defeated Zorriti Lujan(12/23)
Defeated Luciano Medina(12/29)
Defeated Hilario Rosario(12/29)
Defeated Camy Alvarez(12/29)
Defeated Hector Estrada(12/23)

 

[Title Fight Productions]

1980
Defeated Roberto Zarza by submission(0:11)
Defeated Xavier Caiso by arm bar(0:16)
Defeated Favio Oliver by clock choke(0:09)
Defeated Misha Rusaski by knee lock(3:54)
Defeated Paulo Lima by choke from the mount(0:33)
Defeated Xavier Caiso by triangle choke(5:09)
Defeated Otta Stelling by armbar(0:18)
Defeated Emmerson Fernandes by tap out(1:29)
Defeated Rio Kid(1/09) by TKO(0:19)
Defeated Zulu(1/23)
Defeated Roug Verdulet(3/23)
Defeated Somoto Hiryo(5/3)
Defeated Gogumi Nihi(6/1)
Defeated James Langwick(6/25)
Defeated Spencer Longley(6/26)
Defeated Tagami Ainao(7/18)
Defeated Gotaka Yonaga(8/22)
Defeated Peter Longwick(9/2)
Defeated Hitsu Kantsu(9/7)
Defeated Fred Langtion(9/7)
Defeated Peter Longwick(9/12)
Defeated Sean Tuckson(9/19)
Defeated Heraclio Mejia(9/20)
Defeated Antonio Encisco(9/22)
Defeated Alfonso Campos(10/02)
Defeated Sixto Garcia(10/02) by tap out(0:31)
Defeated Cruz Gonzalez(10/02)
Defeated Tortillo Navarro(10/02)
Defeated Salvador Perez(10/02)
Defeated Pedro James(10/18)
Defeated Cesar Sanchez(10/23)
Defeated Raul Espinosa(10/26)
Defeated Ad Vargas(10/30)
Defeated Francisco Garrido(11/06)
Defeated Tanny Diaz(11/15)
Defeated Eusebio Cruz(11/19)
Defeated Gilberto Beto(11/26)
DefeatedCandido Ferreyra(12/13)
Defeated Hector Moreno(12/17)
Defeated Giglio Rabaldino(12/28)
Defeated Joe Morriera
1981
Defeated Ichimoto Taikyo(1/3)
Defeated Ken Crawwright(3/2)
Defeated Julio Hodgeston(3/5)
Defeated Voiton Rougiertine(3/6)
Defeated Bud Cunningham(3/13)
Defeated David Akerham(3/18)
Defeated Lewis Akerston(3/25)
Defeated Azubishi Fukuki(4/1)
Defeated Avel Rendutine(4/12)
Defeated Enrique Garcia(5/5)
Defeated Grisielyon Anton(5/23)
Defeated Nitai Nagahi(6/2)
Defeated Tsusuki Takushi(6/8)
Defeated Kuruitsu Sonaga(6/10)
Defeated Rougero Magarogue(6/19)by tap out(8:27)
Defeated Equada
1982
Defeated Sergio Penha
Defeated Pedao Gaston(4/19)
Defeated Randy Fairworth(4/21)
Defeated Erin Cobwick(6/1)
Defeated Shosumei Kaiki(6/6)
Defeated Juan Kentston(6/9)by tap out(2:34)
Defeated Defeated Marco Rendouture(6/15)
Defeated Renda Verderogue(6/20)
Defeated Gris Jean-Rendious(6/22)
Defeated Bart Hartworth(7/7)
Defeated Herbert Latham(8/6)
Defeated Kantai Roaki(8/22)
Defeated Kuru Kurata(10/20)
Defeated Kanwara Itsumaka(10/27)
1983
Defeated Vinous Verdieson(1/28)
Defeated Costine Bonutine(4/25)
Defeated Verdouson Verdieuous(4/11)
Defeated Dennis Hodgewell(5/17)
Defeated Jon Kentwright(5/21)
Defeated Jim Edgerwright(8/3)
Defeated Fred Shefbel(9/10)
Defeated George Cromley(9/12)
1984
Defeated Susetsu Ikiso(1/15)
Defeated Zenio Prendes by armbar(3/2)
Defeated Gus Campwood(3/7)
Defeated Gymoto Kaai(4/23)
Defeated Rendie Rodriguez(5/9)
Defeated Mimari Ikugen((5/11)
Defeated Koto Heikyo(6/3)
Defeated Bayari Kaken(6/6)
Defeated Verdaroux Vinquet(7/3)
Defeated Mosetsu Banshu(8/10)
Defeated Dustin Crawwood(10/23)
1985
Defeated Batai Dafuto(1/2)
Defeated Pendao Andievous(4/11)
Defeated Azugumi Shiya(5/12)
Defeated Dan Campley(6/22)
Defeated Jim Anderson(6/28)
Defeated Dennis Akerley(6/7)
Defeated Gotai Kinaku(6/14)
Defeated Enrique Verdutine(7/14)
Defeated Tom Baughwick(7/25)
Defeated Rudy Hollings(8/19)
Defeated Wasumei Omoka(9/21)
1986
Defeated Joe Morriera
Defeated Bud Cobman(4/9)
Defeated Akikari Taazu(5/4)
Defeated Dotaku Genka(5/17)
Defeated Chato Verdalyon(6/12)
Defeated Marcelo Costine(6/13)
Defeated Sanchez Rodriguez(7/12)
Defeated Jerome Jackson(7/25)
Defeated Baitsu Nagakuru(9/7)
Defeated Ralph Hollings(9/8)
Defeated Tom Campley(10/2)
Defeated Mage Verdelet(10/15)
1987
Defeated Verd Rendienne(1/4)
Defeated Yakusu Akita(1/14)
Defeated Wasuki Kanmo(1/19)
Defeated Ralph Edgerbel(3/1)
Defeated Defeated Bono Rendietat(6/5)
Defeated Grisu Chataoutat(6/14)
Defeated Iku Shohei(8/28)
Defeated Frank Cobston(10/10)
Defeated Willie Cunnington(10/11)
Defeated Farutaku Kiju(10/11)
1988
Defeated Okodari Heiju
Defeated Genyaku Ashiho(3/21)
Defeated Brad Campwood(4/25)
Defeated Bono Chaterue(6/2)
Defeated Grist Magoutine(6/9)
Defeated Enrique Rouguson(6/13)
Defeated Gristo Marad(6/28)
Defeated Hugo Duarte(7/5)
Defeated Eric Henderley(7/18)
Defeated Itsumoru Gyhi(8/27)
Defeated Gabe Wenwright(10/18)
Defeated Louis Poisette(10/19)
1989
Defeated Zulu(1/19)
Defeated Roug Rodriguez(4/14)
Defeated Royari Nagaso(5/18)
Defeated Kuruyari Akihei(8/4)
Defeated Rudy Cunningwell(10/3)
Defeated Bob Hartston(10/8)
Defeated Vino Andoulet(10/22)
1990
Defeated Rigan Machado
Defeated Rigan Machado
Defeated Fabio Gurgel
Defeated Robert Anderley(3/11)
Defeated Anda Verdetine(5/6)
Defeated Okayami Maari(5/20)by submission
Defeated Shotokau Nakukyo(6/12)
Defeated Juan Hodgeman(6/13)
Defeated Tayami Gokyo(8/16)
Defeated Julio Jackson(8/18)
Defeated Andi Duque(10/11)
1991
Defeated Joel Farmer(3/14)by choke
Defeated Steve Parkinson(6/16)by choke
Defeated Bankari Azuki(6/23)by choke
Defeated Tosaru Azuho(7/4)
Defeated Gus Kently(10/1)
Defeated Andu Bonier(10/16)
Defeated Rigan Machado(/?)
Defeated Rigan Machado(?)
1992
Defeated Mark Huntbel(3/2)
Defeated Naga Rokoto(3/23)
Defeated Aritai Ryoyo(4/16)by tap out
Defeated Roy Cartwell(4/23)by submission
Defeated Dueton Voitious(5/4)by choke(0:17)
Defeated Chata Mortelle(5/14)
Defeated Gabe Langbel(5/16)
Defeated Bart Cunningley(7/7)by tap out(0:32)
Defeated Gris Rendounoire(7/11)
Defeated Kenmoto Hoichi(7/12)
Defeated Nakusetsu Juso(7/27)by clock choke(1:05)
Defeated Taimoto Yashi(8/17)
Defeated Anda Chatinoire(9/7)
Defeated Louis Crawbel(9/22)by armbar(0:47)
Defeated Joel Norwick(9/25)
Defeated Basitsu Maken(10/17)
Defeated Kyobishi Shiyo(10/17)
Defeated Avage Griselynon(10/22)
1993
Defeated Nick Baturin by tap out(0:46)
LOST to RON TRIPP by throwdown
(U.S.SAMBO NATIONALS)
1994
Defeated Mark Schultz
Defeated Yoshinon Nishi(9/9)by choke
Defeated David Leviki(9/9)by tap out
Defeated Bud Smith(9/9)by choke
1995
Defeated Koichiro Kimura(4/20)by choke
Defeated Yoshihisa Yamamoto(4/20)by choke
Defeated Yukai Nakai(4/20)by choke
Defeated Yuki Nakai(9/18)
Defeated Yoji Anjo(12/21)
1996-inactive
1997
Defeated Nobuhiko Tukada(10/11)
1998
Defeated Nobuhiko Tukada(10/11)
1999
Defeated Royler Gracie(4/29)exch. in Japan.
2000
Defeated Masakatsu Funaki(5/26)


TOTAL MATCHES = 486

WON = 484

LOST = 1

DRAW = 1

 

[Q mystic]

pfft. I see no Ron Sambo guy. I think you just typed that up.lol

 

[Title Fight Productions]

pfft. I see no Ron Sambo guy. I think you just typed that up.lol

Just bolded it.:wink:

 

[Q mystic]

sry, its top down. I thought otherwise.lol Clear now that I think.

 

[nomoremondays]

By that logic, Rolls is just doing BJJ. If it is logic.So you don't have a video? What about of just a judo guy moving remotely like him? Controlling the standup to ground (and more importantly, the ground to standup!) transitions?

Fighting back to the feet from the ground is one thing that wrestlers are unparalleled at and Judo guys may be the worst at. Wrestlers get a point for escaping. Judoka are conditioned to wait for the matte, or work for a reversal at best. Escaping is a skillset I have never seen utilized by any pure judo guy in any circumstances. Please, show contrary evidence. I've been waiting for years.
Because we all see that he is a hybrid grappler, not a pure wrestler, BJJ guy, or judoka.

Hi,

QM is a bit... energetic... in his claims if I may say so .
I wouldn't say it is all judo, but, for the times, it looked very judo-esque to me as well more than anything (as I already mentioned before).
I am a little reluctant to post off topic videos for fear of derails here as the OP is a nice historical bjj curio here for everyone to enjoy. But in any case, here's some 'scrambly type judo' where the participants are more evenly matched from close to those times (not exactly though). Its not exactly the same thing obviously but I get the sense this is what you are saying...or maybe not...
[YT]nJ9i1QS3BYk [/YT]

 

[Luke Leasure]

Hi,

QM is a bit... energetic... in his claims if I may say so .
I wouldn't say it is all judo, but, for the times, it looked very judo-esque to me as well more than anything (as I already mentioned before).
I am a little reluctant to post off topic videos for fear of derails here as the OP is a nice historical bjj curio here for everyone to enjoy. But in any case, here's some 'scrambly type judo' where the participants are more evenly matched from close to those times (not exactly though). Its not exactly the same thing obviously but I get the sense this is what you are saying...or maybe not...
[YT]nJ9i1QS3BYk [/YT]

god i wish standing BJJ looked like this.

I know there are some butt scooting, guard pulling loyalists out there, but honestly, how much more dynamic would BJJ be if matches on the feet looked like that, and not just people immediately sitting on their asses?

 

[kenetics]

1980
Defeated Roberto Zarza by submission(0:11)
Defeated Xavier Caiso by arm bar(0:16)
Defeated Favio Oliver by clock choke(0:09)
Defeated Misha Rusaski by knee lock(3:54)
Defeated Paulo Lima by choke from the mount(0:33)
Defeated Xavier Caiso by triangle choke(5:09)
Defeated Otta Stelling by armbar(0:18)
Defeated Emmerson Fernandes by tap out(1:29)
Defeated Rio Kid(1/09) by TKO(0:19)
Defeated Zulu(1/23)
Defeated Roug Verdulet(3/23)
Defeated Somoto Hiryo(5/3)
Defeated Gogumi Nihi(6/1)
Defeated James Langwick(6/25)
Defeated Spencer Longley(6/26)
Defeated Tagami Ainao(7/18)
Defeated Gotaka Yonaga(8/22)
Defeated Peter Longwick(9/2)
Defeated Hitsu Kantsu(9/7)
Defeated Fred Langtion(9/7)
Defeated Peter Longwick(9/12)
Defeated Sean Tuckson(9/19)
Defeated Heraclio Mejia(9/20)
Defeated Antonio Encisco(9/22)
Defeated Alfonso Campos(10/02)
Defeated Sixto Garcia(10/02) by tap out(0:31)
Defeated Cruz Gonzalez(10/02)
Defeated Tortillo Navarro(10/02)
Defeated Salvador Perez(10/02)
Defeated Pedro James(10/18)
Defeated Cesar Sanchez(10/23)
Defeated Raul Espinosa(10/26)
Defeated Ad Vargas(10/30)
Defeated Francisco Garrido(11/06)
Defeated Tanny Diaz(11/15)
Defeated Eusebio Cruz(11/19)
Defeated Gilberto Beto(11/26)
DefeatedCandido Ferreyra(12/13)
Defeated Hector Moreno(12/17)
Defeated Giglio Rabaldino(12/28)
Defeated Joe Morriera
1981
Defeated Ichimoto Taikyo(1/3)
Defeated Ken Crawwright(3/2)
Defeated Julio Hodgeston(3/5)
Defeated Voiton Rougiertine(3/6)
Defeated Bud Cunningham(3/13)
Defeated David Akerham(3/18)
Defeated Lewis Akerston(3/25)
Defeated Azubishi Fukuki(4/1)
Defeated Avel Rendutine(4/12)
Defeated Enrique Garcia(5/5)
Defeated Grisielyon Anton(5/23)
Defeated Nitai Nagahi(6/2)
Defeated Tsusuki Takushi(6/8)
Defeated Kuruitsu Sonaga(6/10)
Defeated Rougero Magarogue(6/19)by tap out(8:27)
Defeated Equada
1982
Defeated Sergio Penha
Defeated Pedao Gaston(4/19)
Defeated Randy Fairworth(4/21)
Defeated Erin Cobwick(6/1)
Defeated Shosumei Kaiki(6/6)
Defeated Juan Kentston(6/9)by tap out(2:34)
Defeated Defeated Marco Rendouture(6/15)
Defeated Renda Verderogue(6/20)
Defeated Gris Jean-Rendious(6/22)
Defeated Bart Hartworth(7/7)
Defeated Herbert Latham(8/6)
Defeated Kantai Roaki(8/22)
Defeated Kuru Kurata(10/20)
Defeated Kanwara Itsumaka(10/27)
1983
Defeated Vinous Verdieson(1/28)
Defeated Costine Bonutine(4/25)
Defeated Verdouson Verdieuous(4/11)
Defeated Dennis Hodgewell(5/17)
Defeated Jon Kentwright(5/21)
Defeated Jim Edgerwright(8/3)
Defeated Fred Shefbel(9/10)
Defeated George Cromley(9/12)
1984
Defeated Susetsu Ikiso(1/15)
Defeated Zenio Prendes by armbar(3/2)
Defeated Gus Campwood(3/7)
Defeated Gymoto Kaai(4/23)
Defeated Rendie Rodriguez(5/9)
Defeated Mimari Ikugen((5/11)
Defeated Koto Heikyo(6/3)
Defeated Bayari Kaken(6/6)
Defeated Verdaroux Vinquet(7/3)
Defeated Mosetsu Banshu(8/10)
Defeated Dustin Crawwood(10/23)
1985
Defeated Batai Dafuto(1/2)
Defeated Pendao Andievous(4/11)
Defeated Azugumi Shiya(5/12)
Defeated Dan Campley(6/22)
Defeated Jim Anderson(6/28)
Defeated Dennis Akerley(6/7)
Defeated Gotai Kinaku(6/14)
Defeated Enrique Verdutine(7/14)
Defeated Tom Baughwick(7/25)
Defeated Rudy Hollings(8/19)
Defeated Wasumei Omoka(9/21)
1986
Defeated Joe Morriera
Defeated Bud Cobman(4/9)
Defeated Akikari Taazu(5/4)
Defeated Dotaku Genka(5/17)
Defeated Chato Verdalyon(6/12)
Defeated Marcelo Costine(6/13)
Defeated Sanchez Rodriguez(7/12)
Defeated Jerome Jackson(7/25)
Defeated Baitsu Nagakuru(9/7)
Defeated Ralph Hollings(9/8)
Defeated Tom Campley(10/2)
Defeated Mage Verdelet(10/15)
1987
Defeated Verd Rendienne(1/4)
Defeated Yakusu Akita(1/14)
Defeated Wasuki Kanmo(1/19)
Defeated Ralph Edgerbel(3/1)
Defeated Defeated Bono Rendietat(6/5)
Defeated Grisu Chataoutat(6/14)
Defeated Iku Shohei(8/28)
Defeated Frank Cobston(10/10)
Defeated Willie Cunnington(10/11)
Defeated Farutaku Kiju(10/11)
1988
Defeated Okodari Heiju
Defeated Genyaku Ashiho(3/21)
Defeated Brad Campwood(4/25)
Defeated Bono Chaterue(6/2)
Defeated Grist Magoutine(6/9)
Defeated Enrique Rouguson(6/13)
Defeated Gristo Marad(6/28)
Defeated Hugo Duarte(7/5)
Defeated Eric Henderley(7/18)
Defeated Itsumoru Gyhi(8/27)
Defeated Gabe Wenwright(10/18)
Defeated Louis Poisette(10/19)
1989
Defeated Zulu(1/19)
Defeated Roug Rodriguez(4/14)
Defeated Royari Nagaso(5/18)
Defeated Kuruyari Akihei(8/4)
Defeated Rudy Cunningwell(10/3)
Defeated Bob Hartston(10/8)
Defeated Vino Andoulet(10/22)
1990
Defeated Rigan Machado
Defeated Rigan Machado
Defeated Fabio Gurgel
Defeated Robert Anderley(3/11)
Defeated Anda Verdetine(5/6)
Defeated Okayami Maari(5/20)by submission
Defeated Shotokau Nakukyo(6/12)
Defeated Juan Hodgeman(6/13)
Defeated Tayami Gokyo(8/16)
Defeated Julio Jackson(8/18)
Defeated Andi Duque(10/11)
1991
Defeated Joel Farmer(3/14)by choke
Defeated Steve Parkinson(6/16)by choke
Defeated Bankari Azuki(6/23)by choke
Defeated Tosaru Azuho(7/4)
Defeated Gus Kently(10/1)
Defeated Andu Bonier(10/16)
Defeated Rigan Machado(/?)
Defeated Rigan Machado(?)
1992
Defeated Mark Huntbel(3/2)
Defeated Naga Rokoto(3/23)
Defeated Aritai Ryoyo(4/16)by tap out
Defeated Roy Cartwell(4/23)by submission
Defeated Dueton Voitious(5/4)by choke(0:17)
Defeated Chata Mortelle(5/14)
Defeated Gabe Langbel(5/16)
Defeated Bart Cunningley(7/7)by tap out(0:32)
Defeated Gris Rendounoire(7/11)
Defeated Kenmoto Hoichi(7/12)
Defeated Nakusetsu Juso(7/27)by clock choke(1:05)
Defeated Taimoto Yashi(8/17)
Defeated Anda Chatinoire(9/7)
Defeated Louis Crawbel(9/22)by armbar(0:47)
Defeated Joel Norwick(9/25)
Defeated Basitsu Maken(10/17)
Defeated Kyobishi Shiyo(10/17)
Defeated Avage Griselynon(10/22)
1993
Defeated Nick Baturin by tap out(0:46)
LOST to RON TRIPP by throwdown
(U.S.SAMBO NATIONALS)
1994
Defeated Mark Schultz
Defeated Yoshinon Nishi(9/9)by choke
Defeated David Leviki(9/9)by tap out
Defeated Bud Smith(9/9)by choke
1995
Defeated Koichiro Kimura(4/20)by choke
Defeated Yoshihisa Yamamoto(4/20)by choke
Defeated Yukai Nakai(4/20)by choke
Defeated Yuki Nakai(9/18)
Defeated Yoji Anjo(12/21)
1996-inactive
1997
Defeated Nobuhiko Tukada(10/11)
1998
Defeated Nobuhiko Tukada(10/11)
1999
Defeated Royler Gracie(4/29)exch. in Japan.
2000
Defeated Masakatsu Funaki(5/26)


TOTAL MATCHES = 486

WON = 484

LOST = 1

DRAW = 1

Not sure if serious .......

 

[DRS192]

Knee on bellly is something I did since the 80's. In my teens. Tho, it was typically done when you bury a fella in randori who wasn't quite up to par scrappy. Actually, you didnt even need to bury him. Regardless. If he was scrappy, then you went right to 'wrestling' from your pov maybe, but you took to control more primal. I think in this case it was the former; Rickson being young, in his teens, and seemingly having zero concept of stand-up-to-ground figting. Knee to belly is often a shark vs goldfish tech.

Rolls was born on 3/28/51, and Rickson was born on 11/21/58. Since the clip of them grappling was shot in 1980, Rickson had to be at least 21 years old at the time.

 

[Cachimbo]

Hi,

QM is a bit... energetic... in his claims if I may say so .
I wouldn't say it is all judo, but, for the times, it looked very judo-esque to me as well more than anything (as I already mentioned before).
I am a little reluctant to post off topic videos for fear of derails here as the OP is a nice historical bjj curio here for everyone to enjoy. But in any case, here's some 'scrambly type judo' where the participants are more evenly matched from close to those times (not exactly though). Its not exactly the same thing obviously but I get the sense this is what you are saying...or maybe not...
[YT]nJ9i1QS3BYk [/YT]

Oh my god that was beautiful. What year is this?

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Not sure if serious .......

 

[Jeff Goldblum69]

How could Rolls invent anything? Carlos was his dad.

Everyone knows Helio invented leverage and the pure BJJ. Carlos invented food. There is a big difference.

wasn't helio his dad? ... Im mean carlos was biologically...but Helio raised him as his own..

 

[Uchi Mata]

god i wish standing BJJ looked like this.

I know there are some butt scooting, guard pulling loyalists out there, but honestly, how much more dynamic would BJJ be if matches on the feet looked like that, and not just people immediately sitting on their asses?

I'd settle for Judo still looking like this. You watch matches like this, and you go watch the last world championships, and it's not even close which is the better expression of a martial art.

 

[IQwrestler]

around the 32 minute mark

 

[deadlizard]

1999
Defeated Royler Gracie(4/29)exch. in Japan.

 

[Q mystic]

Hi,

QM is a bit... energetic... in his claims if I may say so .
I wouldn't say it is all judo, but, for the times, it looked very judo-esque to me as well more than anything (as I already mentioned before).
I am a little reluctant to post off topic videos for fear of derails here as the OP is a nice historical bjj curio here for everyone to enjoy. But in any case, here's some 'scrambly type judo' where the participants are more evenly matched from close to those times (not exactly though). Its not exactly the same thing obviously but I get the sense this is what you are saying...or maybe not...
[YT]nJ9i1QS3BYk [/YT]

Energetic in just having fun.

Nice fight Nomore, good stuff, but that didn't really help my point.:icon_lol: I think a huge issue with the mis-communication is, already, that too many check out hi-comp vids to 'see and understand' judo, similar to the one you posted, and I dont believe they are an accurate display of judo anymore than hi-comp bjj or wrestling vids would be. Not like club randori. I mean, I used to wrestle like crazy at the club, stall like hell at the tourny.lol Ultra defence and to just to try secure the win. If you win, good; if you lose, oooooh sh*t.lol That was in the 80s, and I didn't have the 'elite' investment of time and $ behind me. Losses to them could be career enders. Just saying that 'scrambly' isnt really in the judoka competitors agenda.

Most, like 98%, of a judokas newaza is done at the club and its usually done quite freestyle, and hard. Even the hi-comp fellas for the most part, except they'll drill tourny spots more; yet at the same time they're more liable to catch and release to keep it going.

Best thing to do is find randori vids to see the 'wrestling' in them. Hard tho as there are so many nonchalent vids.

Ok, here's an old vid of Gracie fighting a judoka in 1988 at a judo club. Randori. Fella fought newaza similar to Rolls albeit in this case on the losing end....fight starts at 9:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVdkug1ekiU

* shitty vid but I'm sure it looked smoother in real life. Lottsa wrestling there? Nope.

 

[nomoremondays]

Energetic in just having fun.

Nice fight Nomore, good stuff, but that didn't really help my point.:icon_lol: I think a huge issue with the mis-communication is, already, that too many check out hi-comp vids to 'see and understand' judo, similar to the one you posted, and I dont believe they are an accurate display of judo anymore than hi-comp bjj or wrestling vids would be. Not like club randori. I mean, I used to wrestle like crazy at the club, stall like hell at the tourny.lol Ultra defence and to just to try secure the win. If you win, good; if you lose, oooooh sh*t.lol That was in the 80s, and I didn't have the 'elite' investment of time and $ behind me. Losses to them could be career enders.

Most, like 98%, of a judokas newaza is done at the club and its usually done quite freestyle, and hard. Even the hi-comp fellas for the most part, except they'll drill tourny spots more; yet at the same time they're more liable to catch and release to keep it going.

Best thing to do is find randori vids to see the 'wrestling' in them. Hard tho as there are so many nonchalent vids.

Ok, here's an old vid of Gracie fighting a judoka in 1988 at a judo club. Randori. Fella fought newaza similar to Rolls albeit in this case on the losing end....fight starts at 9:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVdkug1ekiU

* shitty vid but I'm sure it looked smoother in real life. Lottsa wrestling there? Nope.

hey,
i was trying to say something a bit different i think. basically i was trying to reply to what chainflow was saying (or what I THOUGHT he was saying) that he doesnt see/ hasn't seen judo players display a game where they take someone down from their feet and then get back onto their feet and so on. my impression was that he was saying this is a uniquely wrestling skill set. a large part of the original rolls video displays that aspect. my point in posting the above was for (sort of) video evidence that this kind of a game was quite common in judo pre mid 80's or so as well. And in that particular regard, the rolls video was probably more in tune with the judo of the day than (maybe) the wrestling of the day.

your independent point about randori stands though.

 

[nomoremondays]

Oh my god that was beautiful. What year is this?

essen worlds 87.

 

[Q mystic]

hey,
i was trying to say something a bit different i think. basically i was trying to reply to what chainflow was saying (or what I THOUGHT he was saying) that he doesnt see/ hasn't seen judo players display a game where they take someone down from their feet and then get back onto their feet and so on. my impression was that he was saying this is a uniquely wrestling skill set. a large part of the original rolls video displays that aspect. my point in posting the above was for (sort of) video evidence that this kind of a game was quite common in judo pre mid 80's or so as well. And in that particular regard, the rolls video was probably more in tune with the judo of the day than (maybe) the wrestling of the day.

your independent point about randori stands though.

Sry Nomore. Thats embarrassing.lolol Totally clicks now.:icon_lol:

p.s. now, an even more awesome match you posted.lol