Rickson Gracie vs Rolls Gracie

I have to agree with Q: Rolls' style looks very Judo-like. A lot of it looked like it was straight from Okano's Vital Judo, actually (not really surprising considering he trained with Mehdi). He even slipped into Kuzure kesa gatame on the ground.
 
Rolls Gracie was known for his Judo level, actually. Rolls was somehow one of the people who complemented the "small guy BJJ" from Helio with a more offensive approach. Rickson was influenced by him.

There is a story showed in a TV show here in Brazil that a guy was telling he and some friends had a feud with Rolls while surfing, and went to the sand to fight him. The guy said Rolls just uchi-mata'd him and that his friends gave up right there, lol. Next day the guy signed up on Rolls gym.
 
Luke Leasure said:
He isn't fighting like a spaz, he's just putting intense pressure on. You can see the wrestling background in his style. He's always scrambling and is grappling at a really intense level.

IMO this is what BJJ should look like, not this relaxed grip fighting, but scooting, double guard pull nonsense. BJJ now is too slow paced, and casual. Rolls had it figured out.
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Agree with everything you said, except the slow paced and relaxed part. This is a great side of BJJ and what I like over wrestling. It's also the reason you can be effective in jiu-jitsu at an advanced age.
 
Q mystic said:
Make no mistake. That was ALL Judo. Done and done. Plenty of points there where he opted for room that a wrestler wouldn't have.





Not trying to be a dick but I've never seen Rolls before and that looks complete judo. Assuming he has fought differently in the past, I won't call him a bred judoka thats just tussled a hella lotta more bjjers.:icon_lol:
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Correction, that was all Jiu-Jitsu. This is how old school Jiu-Jitsu was. There was none of that starting from the knees non-sense. They intensely trained throws, takedowns etc.
 
Q mystic said:
How come Rickson seems to have no idea about anything stand-up? I understand this was prolly a no gaurd pull match but he looks pretty noob in standing.
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Don't forget Rickson was still a kid here. Rolls was 7 years older than Rickson.
 
Uchi Mata said:
Anyone can fight in that style, you just have to train for it. You may not be the most explosive guy, or the strongest, but if you have good cardio you can go at guys hard and break them with conditioning. Wrestlers do it all the time, and most of them don't start out physical beasts, they make themselves that way. I'm not the most physically talented guy, but when I was really training judo hard, I'd beat guys just by going at them longer and harder than they could handle. Royce could have done the same thing if he'd trained for it. That's why wrestlers dominated when they first got into MMA. No one could handle their pace.
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But you can only be a spaz as a young man. The beauty of BJJ is that you can still be effective at an older age.
 
Rado said:
But you can only be a spaz as a young man. The beauty of BJJ is that you can still be effective at an older age.
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I'm not sure 'spaz' means what you think it means. Fighting with speed and power is not spazzing. Not simply laying on your back waiting for your opponent to tire is not spazzing. Spazzing is thrashing without intent or technique, about as far from what Rolls was doing as you can get. And of course, we slow down as we age. But does that mean that during the majority of our lives when we can be in decent physical condition we shouldn't train and fight hard? Waiting for people to get tired only works in a very limited scenario, namely a one on one controlled environment duel where your opponent doesn't really know much about grappling, and will 'spaz' himself to exhaustion while you wait in closed guard. That's pretty unrealistic, and in fact outside of challenge matches against karate guys and UFC 1-10 or so I don't think I've ever seen it. If you watch some of the old challenge matches, there was none of this waiting BS, guys like Carlson and Rickson would just steamroll people. The longer you train like that too, the longer you'll retain your ability to be physical when the need arises. Other than injuries, there's simply no reason to prefer passive training to intense active training for fighting or self defense.
 
Rado said:
Correction, that was all Jiu-Jitsu. This is how old school Jiu-Jitsu was. There was none of that starting from the knees non-sense. They intensely trained throws, takedowns etc.
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That's actually not true, or at least that's not how old Gracie-lineage BJJ was. There wasn't much standing work pre-Rolls.
 
iamdissapoint said:
Haha yea, sorry for the misunderstanding. Rickson is crazy, he speaks his mind but he shouldnt be taken 100% seriously. This 400-0 is just one of his gems. Rickson might have ducked Ruas or Sakuraba (idk), he may talk too much and such. But still its pretty cool nobody really got to see him lose. My teacher Vinicius Campelo was his student from white to brown and said he only saw Rickson tap when one huge blackbelt was getting an arm triangle on everyone and Rickson asked him to start with the position locked. He said Rickson tapped twice and escaped in the third. Sometimes his greatness is forgotten because of his behavior

And here is my advice, never learn portuguese, it sucks. So hard and nobody speaks it, Haha
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Great post. I am a huge Rickson fan and am always singing his praises!!!! I have actually seen the list of 400-1.:eek:

I don't think he ducked anyone, nor needed to.
 
Daniel Tapia said:
Hey, guys, I don't even know where this 400-0 figure came from. He most definitely lost.

It was against Ron Tripp. Rickson got Uchi mata'd so bad that he was knocked out cold from it.

I've heard lots of rumors about this match but the loss was a fact.
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I've seen the 400-1 list, names, dates, etc. And yes the Ron Tripp fight is on there.
 
Uchi Mata said:
I'm not sure 'spaz' means what you think it means. Fighting with speed and power is not spazzing.
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Ok, so let me re-phrase that. You can only fight with speed and power as a young man. Works just as well, so whatever is the definition of spazzing in your opinion makes no difference in the context. :)

Uchi Mata said:
Not simply laying on your back waiting for your opponent to tire is not spazzing. Spazzing is thrashing without intent or technique, about as far from what Rolls was doing as you can get. And of course, we slow down as we age. But does that mean that during the majority of our lives when we can be in decent physical condition we shouldn't train and fight hard?
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Majority? Let's say the average man lives what 75-80. He can fight like that till his mid 30's maybe, if he's very gifted. Is this the majority, specially if he didn't start at 3 years old? I would say the average person can keep that pace for 10-15 years if he manages to get lucky and avoid injures.

Uchi Mata said:
Waiting for people to get tired only works in a very limited scenario,
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I don't agree with waiting for people to get tired all the time either. You can still attack without spazzing, er, fighting with all the power and speed you got. I don't care how good your cardio is, eventually we all gas. But fighting and specially sparring with all that energy makes you way too dependent on other things besides technique.

Uchi Mata said:
Other than injuries, there's simply no reason to prefer passive training to intense active training for fighting or self defense.
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Other than injures? This would already be enough reason not to spar like a spaz. What is the point of going all out and getting hurt or hurting others and having to take time off? I would say you progress more training mindfully every day than training like a nuthead and going all out once a week because you getting hurt and need time off. But besides that, if you are using all your power and speed you are not training your technique, unless you are like a brown or black. The reason for beginners to use power and speed is to make up for their technique, which sucks and will still suck till they stop compensating with speed and power. Sparring is not fighting.
 
Res Judicata said:
That's actually not true, or at least that's not how old Gracie-lineage BJJ was. There wasn't much standing work pre-Rolls.
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This is a myth propagated on the internet once sport BJJ caught on and became all about ground work. Most likely propagated by wrestlers and Gracie haters, who see Rolls as a wrestler for some reason, even though he just exchanged some techniques and competed in wrestling basically using his years of BJJ ground work to get by.

But stand up was always trained. Just look at Helio's fights and how he basically moves like a Judoka, because back then BJJ and Judo were even more close since it was before Judo started going away from what it was to become a spectator's sport. How could they fight Vale-Tudo matches without training stand up? You think Vale-Tudo and challenge matches before Rolls started from the knees? LOL! Watch Carlson fights, who was fighting when Rolls was still a baby. Watch the old 1950-60's Gracie academy promo just posted the other day with students using throws etc.
 
deadlizard said:
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Cool video. Rickson getting roger gracie collar choked and a shot of what seems to be a young royce.

And now we also know where the Mende's bros got the inspiration for their blindingly white videos.
 
Cachimbo said:
Cool video. Rickson getting roger gracie collar choked and a shot of what seems to be a young royce.

And now we also know where the Mendes bros got the inspiration for their blindingly white videos.
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Nice.
 
Cachimbo said:
Cool video. Rickson getting roger gracie collar choked and a shot of what seems to be a young royce.

And now we also know where the Mende's bros got the inspiration for their blindingly white videos.
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Damn, Royce with a baby face.
 
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