Rickson Gracie vs Rolls Gracie

saw this posted on FB earlier today - amazing stuff.

I'm guessing that there's alot of secret footage out there.
 
lechien said:
well, they both learned Judo under Medhi.
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How come Rickson seems to have no idea about anything stand-up? I understand this was prolly a no gaurd pull match but he looks pretty noob in standing.
 
My guess is that it's before he went to Medhi, he was still a teenager when rolls was alive
 
Yikes, such a short tease! Rolls was great, he seemed to be moving "a lot faster" than Rickson. You can tell Rickson is a young man going against an adult here. Just in the way he is some what hesitant and "surviving" and then once he finally gets a break he pushes for the position with all he has as if it may be the only one of the day for him.
 
Nice video!
And I must say, without knowing much about other sports, that I did see something which looked very similar to 70's/80's style judo.
Also, awesome 'stache!
 
From DK's Rickson FAQ:
Rickson FAQ said:
Even though Helio loved Rolls very much, having raised him since a baby ( Rolls was Carlos's son, and as a grown up called both Helio and Carlos "dad"), he could never fully swallow his bitterness. This exploded when Rolls died. The big commotion afterwards prompted Helio to say something he would regret instantly, he said "Why is everyone calling him a champion? He wasn't a champion. Who did he fight?"

Rolls's wife replied in furious tears "I bet you are happy because now that the sun is gone, the little stars can shine".
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Amazing seeing possibly the two best in their art roll around even if there was a significant experience disparity at the time.
 
Luke Leasure said:
Maybe the take downs were judo, but when they were on the ground he absolutely has a wrestling style to his game. He wrestled in the Olympic trials so obviously its a huge part of his game. The way he initiates his scrambles, the way he spins from the top position, i'm not saying Judo isn't a part of his game (its obviously a huge part), but the wrestling is very visible and when on the ground, its very clear.

look at the TD at :28 seconds, the way he goes to the front headlock, but its mostly in the pressure and scrambling.
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Judo style TDs make more sense in the gi (for obvious reasons), but I agree there was definitely a wrestling feel to what Rolls was doing. Very scrambly, not the start-stop of modern Judo (though Judo in the 70s looked more like wrestling, with a much wider range of legal attacks, grips, and more time on the ground...the good old days), Rolls was just a super high level grappler all around. What a loss, BJJ would look totally different if Rolls or his students had been the guys to represent the family rather than the more passive, wait for your opponent to tire out Helio/Humaita side. Can you imagine someone fighting like Rolls in UFC 1? Grab a dude, ragdoll him, brutal TD, top pressure to finish? It would have totally changed the way people thought about BJJ. And we might have avoided 20 years of 'we have to do pure BJJ, my BJJ is purer than yours, no you can't use wrestling/Judo/Sambo in BJJ' political BS that has held the art back IMO.
 
Uchi Mata said:
Judo style TDs make more sense in the gi (for obvious reasons), but I agree there was definitely a wrestling feel to what Rolls was doing. Very scrambly, not the start-stop of modern Judo (though Judo in the 70s looked more like wrestling, with a much wider range of legal attacks, grips, and more time on the ground...the good old days), Rolls was just a super high level grappler all around. What a loss, BJJ would look totally different if Rolls or his students had been the guys to represent the family rather than the more passive, wait for your opponent to tire out Helio/Humaita side. Can you imagine someone fighting like Rolls in UFC 1? Grab a dude, ragdoll him, brutal TD, top pressure to finish? It would have totally changed the way people thought about BJJ. And we might have avoided 20 years of 'we have to do pure BJJ, my BJJ is purer than yours, no you can't use wrestling/Judo/Sambo in BJJ' political BS that has held the art back IMO.
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isnt that style you are refering to carlson gracie style?

that style works great, against people youre same size, there was zero chances for a guy like royce to do that on severn or even ken.
 
Uchi Mata said:
Judo style TDs make more sense in the gi (for obvious reasons), but I agree there was definitely a wrestling feel to what Rolls was doing. Very scrambly, not the start-stop of modern Judo (though Judo in the 70s looked more like wrestling, with a much wider range of legal attacks, grips, and more time on the ground...the good old days), Rolls was just a super high level grappler all around. What a loss, BJJ would look totally different if Rolls or his students had been the guys to represent the family rather than the more passive, wait for your opponent to tire out Helio/Humaita side. Can you imagine someone fighting like Rolls in UFC 1? Grab a dude, ragdoll him, brutal TD, top pressure to finish? It would have totally changed the way people thought about BJJ. And we might have avoided 20 years of 'we have to do pure BJJ, my BJJ is purer than yours, no you can't use wrestling/Judo/Sambo in BJJ' political BS that has held the art back IMO.
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Well too many IF, but I like his style.

What if Rorion did not tricked rickson into signing the contract which states that he can't fight in the us without Rorion authorisation and even if Rorion said yes, Rorion would get 70% of the purse!
 
BJJ_Rage said:
isnt that style you are refering to carlson gracie style?

that style works great, against people youre same size, there was zero chances for a guy like royce to do that on severn or even ken.
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I think the Carlson method, being so aggressive, could work well against bigger folks. In fact, I've seen it in action. But I digress, don't want to hijack!!!
 
Luke Leasure said:
He isn't fighting like a spaz, he's just putting intense pressure on. You can see the wrestling background in his style. He's always scrambling and is grappling at a really intense level.

IMO this is what BJJ should look like, not this relaxed grip fighting, but scooting, double guard pull nonsense. BJJ now is too slow paced, and casual. Rolls had it figured out.
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the "slow casual" pace that you don't like is how Helio won most of his Vale Tudo fight and how Royce fought his whole career. Let's face it, you can only fight that aggressively if you are physically talented. Like Rolls was. No wonder that guys from his lineage (Alliance and its offshoots) were known in their early days for their speed and pace.
 
nefti said:
the "slow casual" pace that you don't like is how Helio won most of his Vale Tudo fight and how Royce fought his whole career. Let's face it, you can only fight that aggressively if you are physically talented. Like Rolls was. No wonder that guys from his lineage (Alliance and its offshoots) were known in their early days for their speed and pace.
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Anyone can fight in that style, you just have to train for it. You may not be the most explosive guy, or the strongest, but if you have good cardio you can go at guys hard and break them with conditioning. Wrestlers do it all the time, and most of them don't start out physical beasts, they make themselves that way. I'm not the most physically talented guy, but when I was really training judo hard, I'd beat guys just by going at them longer and harder than they could handle. Royce could have done the same thing if he'd trained for it. That's why wrestlers dominated when they first got into MMA. No one could handle their pace.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
isnt that style you are refering to carlson gracie style?

that style works great, against people youre same size, there was zero chances for a guy like royce to do that on severn or even ken.
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Carlson Gracie jnr mentioned that Carlson Jiu Jitsu is the most relevant to vale tudo.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
isnt that style you are refering to carlson gracie style?

that style works great, against people youre same size, there was zero chances for a guy like royce to do that on severn or even ken.
Click to expand...

Actually in the first fight that is exactly what Royce did to Ken.:icon_neut
 
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