Rickson Gracie in Conversation with Matt Thornton

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by iYoda, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. iYoda

    iYoda White Belt

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  2. Habs fan

    Habs fan White Belt

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    I understand Rickson saying most guys like to use their attributes and he likes to use his mind. The problem is most of us don't have Rickson intelligence when it comes to jiu jitsu. The original question is how do I beat a guy that is bigger stronger? I become more technical, I out wit my opponent. But what if my opponent is more technical them me? Become more technical? I can't always do that. This is why I tend to agree more with Carlson Gracie it's about developing attributes with technique. It's funny cause in the past Rickson would say it's about being balance with good techniques and flexibility and strength etc. Sorry but I know too many guys that are far superior to my Jiu jitsu so I have to use my attributes to beat these guys.
     
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  3. peregrine

    peregrine Kahuna Dog

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    Habs- Why can't you become more technical over time?

    He was also discussing attributes in relation to winning bjj contests. In no way did Rickson say do not use attributes in a fight, he said the essence of his bjj is for the smaller man to beat the bigger man using superior technique.
    He highlighted multiple times progression and pressure.
     
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  4. Habs fan

    Habs fan White Belt

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    Peregrine I must of misunderstood what Rickson was saying. Your right he did mention progression and pressure. I guess I was just having a knee jerk reaction to hearing a gracie say what sounded like it only about technique. I understand it hear wrong
     
  5. Habs fan

    Habs fan White Belt

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    I heard it wrong
     
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  6. ReAnimator Reagan

    ReAnimator Reagan Banned Banned

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    But it is much more attainable than say getting a 10 foot wingspan.
     
  7. Bjoern

    Bjoern White Belt

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    I think the way he means it is a llittle different. He doesn´t say don´t train your physical attributes but don´t use them while learning BJJ.

    I feel the same. I think the most important thing is to observe yourself when you are training a technique or even rolling.

    When you practice a technique:

    • Is there some part of the move that isn´t going fluid and easy in terms of movement?

    • Are you loosing your balance at some point?

    • Do you need to squeeze or twist and torque your body awkwardly while applying a move?

    • Can you stop the movement at any time and still feel strong and in base?

    • Do I tense up certain parts of my body I am supposed not to do?

    • Do I hold my breath?

    When you roll especially with lighter or less skilled guys:

    • Does this move only work because I suddenly went faster and overpowered and surprised him?

    • Do I have a good body structure or do I use pure muscle strength to keep myself in place and position?

    • Do I hold my breath?

    • Do I need a lot of concentric strength (this is a big one)?

    • Did I put myself in a stupid position and can I just escape because I am stronger?

    When I train I constantly looking for these things and I try to make my BJJ as much effortless as possible.

    On the other hand I do sprints and HIT Training and stuff like that to prepare my body in the best way. But I wouldn´t substitute technique with strength while training.
     
  8. yetanother

    yetanother Black Belt

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    Rafa Mendes and Gui Mendes often take time to explain to that students that if you don't change your speed and explode you won't get anything done in BJJ. They put special emphasizes on training to go hard when you want to sweep etc.
    You can watch training sessions on their sites where they get a pair of kids and the bottom one has to control the guard and then turn it up to 11 while going for a sweep, exploding and scrambling when needed.
     
  9. Bjoern

    Bjoern White Belt

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    But what you get from exploding against some smaller, weaker or less skilled trainingpartner? You proove that you are better but that´s it.

    And against someone stronger and faster it is also not a good idea.

    Of course it works because the Mendes guys have good technique but are even better athletes and it is like Rickson epxlains it. You can get away with a lot if you are a good athlete.

    But in my opinion speed and strength should make an awesome technique even better.

    But it should not cover up an average technique......
     
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  10. Quebec Nick

    Quebec Nick Purple Belt

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    I use my strenght only to get out of tight spots with better guys than me. When I'm with guys on my level or when I'm on top I only try to do things properly.

    My biggest physical advantage is my cardio and muscle endurance because I'm runner and I do kickboxing and bootcamp type workouts. This means that I can be relentless all the time. It's the style that I want to have, to always be in your face and always moving. I usually wear out people that can't follow this pace (or my ''riddum'') because they gas out.

    I don't really want to learn how to do stuff slowly and to slow down my pace because it's somekind of a physical advantage.
     
  11. Bjoern

    Bjoern White Belt

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    But you are missing the point here. I am not saying you should fight slow. Lets take the straight armbar from Mount for example. When you do the armbar you can do it as fast and explosive as possible and drill it over and over again.

    Or you can do it pretty slow and check every inch of the technique. Are you tight, is your opponent carrying your weight, are you in balance, can you stop the movement right where you are and still have control? These things show you how good your quality of movement is.

    When you then roll competively against a same level guy you will have the perfect technique and you can apply them with speed. If you only hurry your technique and drill with speed you cover up your weaknesses. If you do it slow first, it will polish your technique and then you can add phyisical attributes.

    Personally I don´t like to move fast and explosive because everyday you get older and someone got faster and stronger but thats a personal choice. Still if you train slow you will have time to correct the small mistakes and details and that will make your technique better even when you later apply them with speed
     
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  12. yetanother

    yetanother Black Belt

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    Rafa is a lot better technician than an athlete, he is one of the couple (if not the) most technical people on the planet. Rafa is not the most athletic man on earth.
     
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  13. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    The Rickson black belts that I've trained with are some of the most dedicated advocates of workouts other than jiu-jitsu. They focus on swimming, ginastica natural, and yoga: all things that build the attributes the Rickson style wants, namely breath control and body awareness.

    Maybe there's somewhat of a semantic argument here, but I think the main point of the Rickson philosophy is to build attributes that complement mind and body. That's how you develop that ephemeral grappling IQ.
     
  14. Bjoern

    Bjoern White Belt

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    That depends on how you look at things. When I look at this video, thats how BJJ should work for me. Thats how I model my BJJ after. Slow, controlled, position oriented, oldschool.....



    When you look at the Mendes brothers you see a much faster more physical style I would say:



    I am going with the Rickson style but that depends on your own preferences and style. Everyone is different but what Rickson explains in the video will lead more to a style shown in the first video.
     
  15. The Polish Pounder

    The Polish Pounder Excellence of execution belt Platinum Member

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    I don't know what rank or how much experience you have, or your age, but if you are blue belt or lower your game is gonna suck when you get old with that mindset imo. When your physical attributes go, or you suffer a debilitating injury you will wish you spent more time learning to dictate a slower pace.
     
  16. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Purple Belt

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    The primary difference between those videos is whether the guy with the 30 pound weight advantage wins or not, rather than the emphasis of their respective training styles.
     
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  17. peregrine

    peregrine Kahuna Dog

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    Then do not listen to Rickson.
    You know better.
     
  18. peregrine

    peregrine Kahuna Dog

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    What I also see is a direct relationship in the ability to strike using the fists. The Mendez brothers bjj is far superior to most of the world. But this interpretation of bjj allows more space for the arm to move and power generated for a lucky strike. I am not saying they cannot or have not adapted their bjj or could change if strikes were involved. They also have the benefit of 22yrs between the 2 videos and hundreds of thousands of people and training hours to reflect on with 25+ years of mma as well.
     
  19. rmongler

    rmongler Black Belt

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    If minimum effort is the goal, then suicide is the answer.
     
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  20. nefti

    nefti Red Belt

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    You mean like this?
     
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