Restructuring weight classes: consistency.

[Cowboy787]

I'd be up for moving WW to 175, adding a 165 and making HW unlimited weight

 

[RayA]

Going off that list, bantamweight and below, and super heavyweight are unneeded. There aren't fighters to populate those weight classes.

 

[mma_genius]

These weight classes would be ideal under the context of one hour weigh-ins and hydration tests being implemented (i.e. no weight cutting).

I think the UWW/IOC's logic behind having a weight limit for wrestling's heaviest weight class makes sense and is applicable to MMA. Furthermore, I doubt a lean athlete could attain a heavier weight naturally.

The wrestling weight classes at the Olympics ranges from 57-130 kg (126-287 lbs), but I don't believe there is enough depth at the moment for the UFC to promote a 59 kg (130 lb) weight class. Additionally, there are only six weight classes for wrestling at the Olympics; which also makes for good business in the UFC as two title defenses per year equals one title defense per month.

The names of the weight classes are derived from boxing.

This thread has been done already. BTW, 105 is way too goddamn small to start out at. We can't find enough decent fighters at 125.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/new-original-unique-awesome-weight-class-idea.3456213/

 

[A.S. Deep]

As MMA gets bigger it's inevitable that we get weight classes like below:

125
135
145
155
165
175
185
195
205
225
265
265+

Along with OneFC style hydration testing, this will make the sport a lot more accessible and safer.

 

[mma_genius]

As MMA gets bigger it's inevitable that we get weight classes like below:

125
135
145
155
165
175
185
195
205
225
265
265+

Along with OneFC style hydration testing, this will make the sport a lot more accessible and safer.

Too many weight classes. This, like boxing, makes titles meaningless.

 

[acannxr]

Going off that list, bantamweight and below, and super heavyweight are unneeded. There aren't fighters to populate those weight classes.

This thread has been done already. BTW, 105 is way too goddamn small to start out at. We can't find enough decent fighters at 125.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/new-original-unique-awesome-weight-class-idea.3456213/

Except I never suggested that those weight classes be in the UFC; look at the layout again and pay close attention to what rows are included in the UFC cell, you'll notice that Super Heavyweight (Unlimited), Lightweight (130 lb), Bantamweight (117 lb), and Strawweight (105 lb) are not included.

I welcome criticism, so long as those criticizing actually read what I wrote.

 

[Ah Man]

These weight classes would be ideal under the context of one hour weigh-ins and hydration tests being implemented (i.e. no weight cutting).

I think many are not really understanding the suggestion, but as far as crafting a theoretical ideal that's unlikely to ever be reality, I think it's pretty good, although I'd tweak it. Certainly, if they're going to introduce a weight-cutting ban—and they absolutely should—it'd be a good idea to make some adjustments to the weight classes. If you didn't, moving all the LHWs to HW would probably be fine, but 125 would be really weak. That said, I feel like rounding the weight classes to the nearest 5 wouldn't make that big a difference, and would make it more accessible to viewers (i.e 285, 220, 200, 180, 160, 145).

I think the UWW/IOC's logic behind having a weight limit for wrestling's heaviest weight class makes sense and is applicable to MMA. Furthermore, I doubt a lean athlete could attain a heavier weight naturally.

I disagree on all counts, here. Mixed martial arts is not wrestling, there are a lot more ways for a quicker fighter with more endurance to exploit a larger opponent. At higher weights (i.e, HW vs SHW), the finishing power and ability of a smaller fighter to get that finishing power to the larger opponent is such that additional size is actually a disadvantage. Even compared to boxing, defense is much more difficult and more mobility-based (i.e., no big gloves to protect from big gloves). MMA is simply a different animal. If anything, the limit protects SHWs from HWs, but in reality you're excluding a handful of guys who would be interesting, but not champions, in the sport's thinnest division. Let Semmy Schilt fight at HW. Let Bigfoot Silva have arms:

Even if they're not his Japanese Kaiju arms:

Does it mostly just affect guys with legitimate giantism before they inevitably have to have surgery that makes them a shell of their athletic selves? Sure. Let them fight!

The names of the weight classes are derived from boxing.

To nitpick, I think this is a bad idea. They should just adjust the weight classes they already have, to retain a historical link to weight classes before the change (i.e., 220 roughly corresponds to light heavyweight, 200 roughly corresponds to middleweight) and to avoid confusing their fans any more than it already would. That would also allow them to retain reigning champs, although if they no longer felt they were in the division, they could leave. For this reason, it's probably worth adopting a smaller % gap, to retain the same number of weight classes. There's clearly enough talent to sustain that many weight classes, and while I'd likely support the smaller number of weight classes were one working from scratch, they're not here. Reducing confusion should be a priority. I also think 145 is a bit too big for some of the talented guys currently fighting at FLW.

 

[Thug Rose]

i like that the gap between weight classes is proportional to body weight, as it should be. the gaps are too big though and the upper and lower classes are unneccessary, like 105, 117 without cutting weight? the same goes for 220 and 287 lbs. no need to split the weakest division HW into 3.

 

[xentreos]

I think people are only thinking of this in terms of the ufc rather than in terms of the entire sport.

I actually think those weight classes look great , I just have some concerns about the lower weight classes. I like 130, combining 125 and 135 is a great idea competitive wise but then 145 straight up to 161 something is kinda missing there for me.

I think something needs to be done about 155 in general though there is literally too much talent in that division, just like the log jam at the top (which was a problem before mcholdout believe it or not) permeates to the rest of the division. I mean guys are going on 5,6,7 fight win streaks and have a tough time getting noticed because there are that many fighters at 155.

As a fan 155 is awesome , but for a fighter it’d be frustrating.

 

[WinZip]

True. I've never understood why HW just isn't unlimited already. if a fighter wants to come in at 300 lbs then just let him take that risk

I sort of agree, but at the same time, for fighters like Hunt or Nelson, they're much better not bloating up. If they know they need to make a certain weight limit, they have to keep some control on their diet and train more cardio, which ultimately is better for them regardless.

That said, there's some fighters who would be fun to watch at OW/no-limit HW

 

[Trojanlegal]

I'd cut women's 145, women's 125, men's 125, and men's 205

I'd open up a men's 195. Some 185ers can move up and the smaller 205ers can move down. It'd be a stacked and exciting weight class.

The bigger 205ers can either lose some body mass or move up to HW. So it would do 3 things:

1) Rejuvenate the dead 205 division at 195 lbs
2) Rejuvenate the dead HW division
3) Allow us to actually know who the best fighter in the world is versus arguing whether it's Jon Jones/ DC or Stipe

You do realize that women's 125 is probably the most stacked weight class in the world. When this weight class matures in the UFC, you will see that if will outshine 135 and 145 easily with talent and exciting fights.

 

[acannxr]

I think many are not really understanding the suggestion, but as far as crafting a theoretical ideal that's unlikely to ever be reality, I think it's pretty good, although I'd tweak it. Certainly, if they're going to introduce a weight-cutting ban—and they absolutely should—it'd be a good idea to make some adjustments to the weight classes. If you didn't, moving all the LHWs to HW would probably be fine, but 125 would be really weak. That said, I feel like rounding the weight classes to the nearest 5 wouldn't make that big a difference, and would make it more accessible to viewers (i.e 285, 220, 200, 180, 160, 145).



I disagree on all counts, here. Mixed martial arts is not wrestling, there are a lot more ways for a quicker fighter with more endurance to exploit a larger opponent. At higher weights (i.e, HW vs SHW), the finishing power and ability of a smaller fighter to get that finishing power to the larger opponent is such that additional size is actually a disadvantage. Even compared to boxing, defense is much more difficult and more mobility-based (i.e., no big gloves to protect from big gloves). MMA is simply a different animal. If anything, the limit protects SHWs from HWs, but in reality you're excluding a handful of guys who would be interesting, but not champions, in the sport's thinnest division. Let Semmy Schilt fight at HW. Let Bigfoot Silva have arms:

Even if they're not his Japanese Kaiju arms:

Does it mostly just affect guys with legitimate giantism before they inevitably have to have surgery that makes them a shell of their athletic selves? Sure. Let them fight!


To nitpick, I think this is a bad idea. They should just adjust the weight classes they already have, to retain a historical link to weight classes before the change (i.e., 220 roughly corresponds to light heavyweight, 200 roughly corresponds to middleweight) and to avoid confusing their fans any more than it already would. That would also allow them to retain reigning champs, although if they no longer felt they were in the division, they could leave. For this reason, it's probably worth adopting a smaller % gap, to retain the same number of weight classes. There's clearly enough talent to sustain that many weight classes, and while I'd likely support the smaller number of weight classes were one working from scratch, they're not here. Reducing confusion should be a priority. I also think 145 is a bit too big for some of the talented guys currently fighting at FLW.

I appreciate you taking the time to give reasoning for your arguments.

Ultimately I don't think the names of the weight classes are all that relevant, the only upside to using the boxing equivalents is to avoid confusion (MMA Light Heavyweight is 205 lbs, but Boxing is 175 lbs). Either use boxing equivalents, or just refer to the divisions and its corresponding champions by the weight itself (i.e. 200 lb-Champion).

As far as HW vs. SHW, boxing doesn't have a weight limit, but they also don't have grappling. Wrestling has a weight limit, and so I copied them. Semmy Schilt weighs 287 lb/130 kg, and Silva was abusing steroids, so neither of those outliers makes a strong case for removing the Heavyweight limit.

Boxing only has less than a 10% bodyweight difference from 175 lbs and below, but the differences below that point are a 4% average; wrestling has an average of 10% and higher.

Rounding the numbers of my original layout makes the weight classes look like this:

I don't think the weight class having an even number (or rounded to the nearest 5) has much bearing on fan-friendliness; look no further than the weight classes for boxing as proof.

i like that the gap between weight classes is proportional to body weight, as it should be. the gaps are too big though and the upper and lower classes are unneccessary, like 105, 117 without cutting weight? the same goes for 220 and 287 lbs. no need to split the weakest division HW into 3.

I updated the image to better convey what weight classes are worldwide and what weight classes are in the UFC; no current Heavyweight could compete at 220 lbs if weight cutting was prohibited (which I prefaced as much in my original post).

I think people are only thinking of this in terms of the ufc rather than in terms of the entire sport.

I actually think those weight classes look great , I just have some concerns about the lower weight classes. I like 130, combining 125 and 135 is a great idea competitive wise but then 145 straight up to 161 something is kinda missing there for me.

I think something needs to be done about 155 in general though there is literally too much talent in that division, just like the log jam at the top (which was a problem before mcholdout believe it or not) permeates to the rest of the division. I mean guys are going on 5,6,7 fight win streaks and have a tough time getting noticed because there are that many fighters at 155.

As a fan 155 is awesome , but for a fighter it’d be frustrating.

Keep in mind, these weight classes are under the stipulation that weight cutting is prohibited (I mentioned as much in my original post). Today's UFC Flyweight and Bantamweight divisions would essentially be merged into a 145 lb division, with the heavier Bantamweights (150 lbs+) competing at the above weight class.

 

[acannxr]

You do realize that women's 125 is probably the most stacked weight class in the world. When this weight class matures in the UFC, you will see that if will outshine 135 and 145 easily with talent and exciting fights.

That's factually incorrect and I have the statistics to back it up:
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/statistical-analysis-all-ufc-2016-2017-fights.3724271/

Note: I excluded fights that ended in No Contest.

2016 Division Activity:
94 fights | Welterweight
89 fights | Lightweight
57 fights | Middleweight
49 fights | Featherweight
47 fights | Bantamweight
39 fights | Heavyweight
38 fights | Light Heavyweight
27 fights | Women's Strawweight
23 fights | Men's Flyweight
22 fights | Women's Bantamweight
02 fights | Women's Featherweight
01 fights | Women's Flyweight

487 fights | Total

2017 Division Activity:
71 fights | Welterweight (-23 fights)
67 fights | Lightweight (-22 fights)
53 fights | Middleweight (-4 fights)
46 fights | Featherweight (-3 fights)
41 fights | Bantamweight (-6 fights)
38 fights | Light Heavyweight (unchanged)
36 fights | Heavyweight (-3 fights)
34 fights | Women's Strawweight (+7 fights)
29 fights | Men's Flyweight (+6 fights)
15 fights | Women's Bantamweight (-7 fights)
11 fights | Women's Flyweight (+10 fights)*
03 fights | Women's Featherweight (+1 fight)

444 fights | Total
*The inaugural champion was crowned on December 1, 2017.

 

[Trojanlegal]

Move 125 as a whole, and all women's non title fights to Invicta, and rebrand

Stop putting shit fights on the main and good fights on prelims and fight pass, stack the main

Go back to spike

Two major business problems with your "solutions."

First, you do realize Spike is not an option for the UFC? Two main reasons: (1) it doesn't exist anymore--its called the Paramount Network now; and (2) Viacom, which owns the Paramount Network and Bellator, show Bellator fights on the network.

Second, why would you eliminate a major revenue stream by cutting WMMA from the UFC? WMMA main event fights (PVZ, Waterson, Holm FOX main events) and some prelim fights (i.e., Grasso on two Fight Night cards and Dern at UFC 222 prelims) bring in higher TV ratings on average than male fights.

 

[Trojanlegal]

That's factually incorrect and I have the statistics to back it up:
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/statistical-analysis-all-ufc-2016-2017-fights.3724271/

I did not say in the UFC--I said the world and I was referring to fighters not fights. Also, 125 just started officially in the UFC during the last quarter of 2017 so any fight totals are not a true picture within the UFC. By the end of this year (at the current pace of announced fights), women's 115 and 125 will have more fights in the UFC than women's 135 and 145.

 

[acannxr]

I did not say in the UFC--I said the world and I was referring to fighters not fights. Also, 125 just started officially in the UFC during the last quarter of 2017 so any fight totals are not a true picture within the UFC. By the end of this year (at the current pace of announced fights), women's 115 and 125 will have more fights in the UFC than women's 135 and 145.

Men's Flyweight has twice as many ranked fighters than Women's Bantamweight, Flyweight, and Strawweight combined.

Calling Women's Flyweight the most stacked division in the world (even potentially) is incorrect.

 

[RayA]

Except I never suggested that those weight classes be in the UFC; look at the layout again and pay close attention to what rows are included in the UFC cell, you'll notice that Super Heavyweight (Unlimited), Lightweight (130 lb), Bantamweight (117 lb), and Strawweight (105 lb) are not included.

I welcome criticism, so long as those criticizing actually read what I wrote.

Except I agree with 130. Actually, if anything, have the lowest weight be 135.
135 is currently my favorite weight-class in the UFC, scrapping it and only having 145 is a no-no in my book.

Edit: Took another look at the post lol. If they actually manage to fix weight cutting, that range looks good enough to me.

 

[acannxr]

Except I agree with 130. Actually, if anything, have the lowest weight be 135.
135 is currently my favorite weight-class in the UFC, scrapping it and only having 145 is a no-no in my book.

Edit: Took another look at the post lol. If they actually manage to fix weight cutting, that range looks good enough to me.

The current Flyweights (125 lbs) cut from 140-145 lbs.
The current Bantamweights (135 lbs) cut from 150-155 lbs.

There are of course exceptions, but these ranges are fairly typical for the weight class; if one were to merge them, 145 lbs would allow the smaller Bantamweights to compete while not having too large of an advantage over the Flyweights who are moving up.