Remember how stupid the Merab-Simon stoppage was?

[mmadeewana]

Merab lost fair and square,but it was pretty badass of him to stay conscious so long

 

[SherdogWasNeverMyFriend]

Schaub was trying to grab Rothwell and close space as Rothwell took his consciousness away.

Merab was trying to wriggle out/show he was conscious by doing crunches as his consciousness left him.

Same-same

Not at all. His consciousness didn't left him. He wasn't 100% there but he wasn't out either. You are done or you are not done. If he would be done he wouldn't continue doing exactly the same thing for the next 45 seconds till the very end after getting caught in the sub. Also, KO's are different from submissions and you can't really compare them. Schaub was clearly done and Herb stopped the fight as it lasted. In Merab situation referee didn't stop the fight, but just wave it off after the bell when Merab was compromised but still there.

 

[RufusShinra]

Not at all. His consciousness didn't left him. He wasn't 100% there but he wasn't out either. You are done or you are not done. If he would be done he wouldn't continue doing exactly the same thing for the next 45 seconds till the very end after getting caught in the sub. Also, KO's are different from submissions and you can't really compare them. Schaub was clearly done and Herb stopped the fight as it lasted. In Merab situation referee didn't stop the fight but just wave it off after the bell when Merab was compromised but still there.

I say if you're conscious, you wouldn't have a thousand-mile-stare, arms flat on the ground, as your leg instinctually repeats the same motion AFTER THE FIGHT HAS ENDED AND THE SUBMISSION HAS BEEN LET GO. He's out, just as out as Schaub was. Technical submission.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I mean if you can’t see the guy clearly has the thousand yard stare for several seconds, I don’t know what to tell you. Simon lets go and Merab’s head falls back limply and he stares off into space, bizarre behavior from a guy that’s completely conscious.

And if he’s out, then how can you give him a victory? That’s just silly.

If he is out then why didn't the ref stop the fight? He still doesn't wave it off as a stoppage. The guys eyes are open, he is moving and he speaks right away. Ricky points at him and I assume says "He is out" and Merab immediately responds verbally. How is that out? His leg isn't twitching involuntarily, he was doing that for about 50 seconds during that choke attempt.

 

[Spath]

He was out. His leg kept doing the kicking motion, but it was involuntary. It’s not twitching per se, but involuntary movement while his brain slowly shut down.

Here’s Mittrione with a twitching leg while out like a light.



like someone pointed out, it seems like Merab slammed his head and went limp for a second there on the last takedown. That was a good take! I noticed he gave up the top position and let Simon reverse him. He was in no danger had he stayed on top, the guillotine wasn’t there.

He went limp for a second on that final takedown, Simon rolled him over and started squeezing, Merab defended as long as he possibly could but his brain shut down.

Bell rings, Simon lets go and the blood flows to the brain again. After a second or two Merab comes out of the tunnel and tells the ref and Simon that he’s fine.

It’s like that one kid at school who argued he’s not crying while obviously crying. Hespect for Dvalishvili for battling and not giving up. He’s got real potential and his record speaks for itself.

 

[SherdogWasNeverMyFriend]

I say if you're conscious, you wouldn't have a thousand-mile-stare, arms flat on the ground, as your leg instinctually repeats the same motion AFTER THE FIGHT HAS ENDED AND THE SUBMISSION HAS BEEN LET GO. He's out, just as out as Schaub was. Technical submission.

You can have a thousand-mile-stare and still be conscious. His legs weren't "instinctually" repeating the same motion. It was something he decided to do right after getting caught in the submission and he continued it till the very end. You don't want to say that he was immediately out after Ricky locked the choke? His arms were flat almost from the start of the choke too and @Sticko even said that sometimes fighters don't fight the hands. He knew he was fucked and knew that fighting hands isn't an option. He decided just to survive until the bell rings and he did. Referee didn't stopped it earlier. Was he 100% conscious? No, but a lot of times fighters aren't 100% conscious when they are getting choked out or after getting clipped hard. It doesn't mean they are done, right? He was still running the bike for a few secs even after the choke was lift off, but it only shows he was still there even if he wasn't 100%.

@Spath same as above. His leg movement wasn't involuntary. Even if he got hurt getting the takedown, his first reaction to that wouldn't be running the bike.

 

[RufusShinra]

I know the point you're trying to make, but the man is running the bike after the sub is released and the fight is over. You say "it only shows he was still there even if he wasn't 100%". To me that shows he is not there at all. Schaub was still trying to pull Rothwell in but that man was as done as Merab.

 

[MCS]

Ref should stop the fight when there's time left to rule if he's out or not. There is the video review part. If he's out before the final bell. I'm fine with that, makes it more accurate. But if he makes it to the final bell that should be enough. Marathoners fighting spirit to get there. Succumb, but got there.

 

[El Fernas]

If he is out then why didn't the ref stop the fight? He still doesn't wave it off as a stoppage. The guys eyes are open, he is moving and he speaks right away. Ricky points at him and I assume says "He is out" and Merab immediately responds verbally. How is that out? His leg isn't twitching involuntarily, he was doing that for about 50 seconds during that choke attempt.

Probably need to rewatch the ending, but that looks like twitching or involuntarily moving, the round already ended and he must have heared the bell...right?

 

[sdpdude9]

If he is out then why didn't the ref stop the fight? He still doesn't wave it off as a stoppage. The guys eyes are open, he is moving and he speaks right away. Ricky points at him and I assume says "He is out" and Merab immediately responds verbally. How is that out? His leg isn't twitching involuntarily, he was doing that for about 50 seconds during that choke attempt.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree, my friend. Pretty clear we’re not going to convince each other and it will be an unending discussion. It was a bizarre ending any way you look at it. Have a good day sherbro.

 

[SherdogWasNeverMyFriend]

You say "it only shows he was still there even if he wasn't 100%". To me that shows he is not there at all.

Imo, if Merab continued the same movement from when he was still obviously conscious then that means he was still there after the bell rang. But of course he was compromised, lacked oxygen and was nearly put away. Maybe 10 seconds more and he would be completely out. It just wasn't enough for me to rule him out.

Schaub was still trying to pull Rothwell in but that man was as done as Merab.

Herb stopped the fight while ref from the Merab fight didn't. Schaub would get his skull caved in if that didn't happen.
Merab survived till the end of the round. Sean O'Malley got ankle injury and wasn't able to stand up after his fight against Soukhamthath. Reyes knocked down OSP at the bell. Both fights went to decision anyway.

Who of these three amigos was in the best position to carry on if needed? O'Malley is out. OSP was hurt badly. Merab was 100% conscious after 3 seconds past and was immediately standing up, but they didn't let him. And who of these three is the only one who got screwed on the result? Merab. Fucking O'Malley was interviewed by Rogan while laying on the ground, but Merab celebrating at the cage was declared as unable to continue the fight which already ended. Top kek. #justice4merab

 

[Kryptt]

Impressed this is a 3 page thread.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

We’ll just have to agree to disagree, my friend. Pretty clear we’re not going to convince each other and it will be an unending discussion. It was a bizarre ending any way you look at it. Have a good day sherbro.

You too. I just think that if the ref didn't stop the fight before the bell it should go to the judges. I guess the rules aren't clear on the matter. Crazy that Merab was allowed to fight that choke for 50 seconds and after the final bell they decide he didn't survive.

Definitely good to discuss opposing views without name calling or throwing generic buzzwords like Salty, Triggered, Nuthugger etc.

 

[maximus__]

Watch the minute before that. He was repeatedly kicking his legs to show he was OK.
He wasn't fighting the hands but fighters often don't fight the hands when defending a guillotine.
Why would his leg be twitching like that if he were unconscious?

What guillotine defence doesn't ivolve some fighting of the hands that is regularly successful? He decided to pray that he could hold out by viciously kicking his legs.
His kicking is slowly dropping off as he loses oxygen and then one of his legs keep kicking once the choke is released. That doesn't look llike someone who has enough oxygen to their brain to continue functioning. He goes out and wakes up from what I can see.

 

[maximus__]

The thing is, he let his arms do that while clearly being conscious earlier in the choke as well.



merab slams his head into the canvas at 58 seconds on the clock. his arms look limp to me moments after, and he gets reversed and guillotined.
shortly after, ref does a limb check and he responds with consciousness
merab decides to tour de france
at 24 seconds on the clock, both his hands are at the mat not defending.
He then again shows consciousness shortly there after.
again at 14 seconds, his arms at the canvas doing nothing, but seems to have conscious facial expressions.



plenty of fights get stopped between rounds. do you not watch mma?
"The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell"

Technical Knockout
i. Referee Stoppage: the referee stops the contest because the combatant
IS NOT INTELLIGENTLY DEFENDING HIMSELF/HERSELF;
1. Strikes
2. Laceration
3. Corner Stoppage
4. Did Not Answer the Bell

These events were very atypical and strange, and i think its because there was a combination of impared consciousness due to head trauma, as well as impared consciousness due to a choke. he neither showed some of the classical signs of losing consciousness, nor did he respond reasonably to defend a choke with 0% hand fighting at times, and 100% bike riding.

That''s the weird part. he literally just makes himself look out at the end regardless. He just chooses to not defend at all and try and survive. It must have been an extremely tight choke to not even make an attempt to use his hands. I definitely think he goes out. Even the end of the fight has less response than he was having earlier in the situations you mention.

 

[krelianx]

He wasn't out, but close to out. His mind was clearly on the brink of unconsciousness.

 

[Rapa]

He wanst out but he made mistake by not fighting back it was one hand sub andi think he could escaped it

 

[Hollywood Jack]

One of the worst ref decisions in the last 10 years. Merab basically dominated him for the whole fight but got caught in a guillotine at the last 50 seconds of the third round. He didn't tap and survived the choke till the bell rang, but the ref decided that he was out after the fight ended.

He definitely got robbed. One of the shittier aspects of the sport. Ref makes a horrible decision and there's nothing that can be done.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

He wasn't unconscious, but he was incapable of continuing. Look at his leg twitching.

Why does he need to continue when the fight is over? Unless he was out, there's no reason to call the fight.

 

[Ares Black]

Why does he need to continue when the fight is over? Unless he was out, there's no reason to call the fight.

That defeats the whole idea of having a fight. If at the end of a fight you cannot continue, you lost.