Analysis Rear kick / shadowboxing advice

[Dexter]

Regarding kicking over a chair, it doesnt need to be very high. Many people make the mistake of kicking over something tall. I wouldnt even aim for something at your hip level. Something like your thigh level. Kick over a bucket, or stool, or what not. This will make it easier to do the motions correctly, rather then "reaching" for a higher kick, which can throw everything off.

You'd be laughing, but my MT coach actually re-taught me middle-kick by forcing me to kick higher on the bag. I couldn't get the correct motion, like the one on Andy's videos, until I start kicking higher .

 

[Monte Moku]

A small update:
https://youtube.com/shorts/a-NwK2q51Lw?si=t3doTEOqdZnS3Siw

Nothing hard or quick, just focusing on the technique. Any advice? I'm happy with my progress, although I still have a long way to go

 

[Trabaho]

Maybe a little bit faster, letting it go, and confident.

My general opinion is just to kick a lot and it always gets better.

 

[Monte Moku]

Maybe a little bit faster, letting it go, and confident.

My general opinion is just to kick a lot and it always gets better.

Thanks man, I definitely tend to overthink the mechanics when I am kicking and as a result have this lingering tension in my muscles - I will keep working on it! I agree about kicking a lot making it improve, but I also think that thoughtful corrections and consistent form-checking can drastically improve the rate of growth by providing a direction for that practitioner to go down. My skills improved more in the two months I spent in Thailand in 2019 with their great coaching than the two years I spent training in the US prior to my visit, at least.

 

[shincheckin]

A small update:
https://youtube.com/shorts/a-NwK2q51Lw?si=t3doTEOqdZnS3Siw

Nothing hard or quick, just focusing on the technique. Any advice? I'm happy with my progress, although I still have a long way to go

Not enough hip rotation. Not kicking through. Freeze frame it when you land on the pads and check your hip position.



Compare to this

 

[Monte Moku]

Not enough hip rotation. Not kicking through. Freeze frame it when you land on the pads and check your hip position.

View attachment 1006084

Compare to this
View attachment 1006086

Thank for your advice and taking the time to watch! I went over the frames in the video and I think you paused it when I was retracting from hitting the pad and not right before the moment of impact. Below I have added a screenshot of all the kicks in the video, paused at the moment before making contact with the Thai pads:

That being said, I do feel like your criticisms still hold water. For example, here is a screenshot I was using as a reference after I saw your reply and compared it my video:

As you can see, Petch's shoulder is further forward (and his swinging arm not as far back) than mine, his hip is higher and turned over more, and it looks like the heel on his standing leg turns further than I do (the last part is easier to see in videos of his padwork). Thank you again for your advice! It caused me to look deeper and make very useful adjustments to my kick. I will post an update once more improvements are made

 

[shincheckin]

Thank for your advice and taking the time to watch! I went over the frames in the video and I think you paused it when I was retracting from hitting the pad and not right before the moment of impact. Below I have added a screenshot of all the kicks in the video, paused at the moment before making contact with the Thai pads:

That being said, I do feel like your criticisms still hold water. For example, here is a screenshot I was using as a reference after I saw your reply and compared it my video:

As you can see, Petch's shoulder is further forward (and his swinging arm not as far back) than mine, his hip is higher and turned over more, and it looks like the heel on his standing leg turns further than I do (the last part is easier to see in videos of his padwork). Thank you again for your advice! It caused me to look deeper and make very useful adjustments to my kick. I will post an update once more improvements are made

Yup your correct about the timing of my photo on the pullback, it was the closest I could get with the right time on my phone.

Your technique is correct but the timing is off. It's hard to explain not in person. Correct kicking mechanics is the hardest thing to learn. The angle of the photos etc can make things look differently, but freeze framing, and evaluating yourself is effective.

3rd photo is probably your best kick.

 

[Monte Moku]

Your technique is correct but the timing is off. It's hard to explain not in person. Correct kicking mechanics is the hardest thing to learn. The angle of the photos etc can make things look differently, but freeze framing, and evaluating yourself is effective.

I think I know what you mean. Lately I have been using the analogy of kicking being like a Rube Goldberg machine in the sense of how everything chains together to get a desired result. I can feel when I am kicking that something isn't quite right, and I'm still trying to figure out where. It'll just take time and practice!

 

[MT5]

Serious question: as a practical matter how much do you touch your heel to the floor while rotating back after a kick? Never? Occasionally depending on other fight movement? Something else? In complicated combos I will often find some of my rotation ends up on the heel as I return to original stance, just as a matter of balance. I'm unclear if this is totally unacceptable or expected or what. If it's unacceptable I want to know so I can pound the hours out to fix it.

 

[shincheckin]

Serious question: as a practical matter how much do you touch your heel to the floor while rotating back after a kick? Never? Occasionally depending on other fight movement? Something else? In complicated combos I will often find some of my rotation ends up on the heel as I return to original stance, just as a matter of balance. I'm unclear if this is totally unacceptable or expected or what. If it's unacceptable I want to know so I can pound the hours out to fix it.

I think I'd have to see this in person to fully grasp and see what's going on, but Id say no you should not be rotating on your heel on the way back. The ball of your foot rather.

What you explain to me would lead me to believe that you are rotating on your heel when you throw the kick as well because if you were on the ball of your foot when you throw your kick when you bring your kick back to stance you should still be on the ball of your foot. When you are bringing your leg back to stance both feet should be landing at the same time so when your rear foot lands your lead leg should be landing flat or still on the ball of the foot but not on the heel.

 

[shincheckin]

Monte
https://youtube.com/shorts/GMKQ3P2POP8?si=JPyxXZpHTpJGtd3B

Mt5
https://youtube.com/shorts/tuE-WGBi67w?si=A4nZlk-wD6KdSHaC

 

[MT5]

I think I'd have to see this in person to fully grasp and see what's going on, but Id say no you should not be rotating on your heel on the way back. The ball of your foot rather.

What you explain to me would lead me to believe that you are rotating on your heel when you throw the kick as well because if you were on the ball of your foot when you throw your kick when you bring your kick back to stance you should still be on the ball of your foot. When you are bringing your leg back to stance both feet should be landing at the same time so when your rear foot lands your lead leg should be landing flat or still on the ball of the foot but not on the heel.

I think it's more that I am using the weight of my body to get the torque to rotate back, if you get what I mean. Rocking to my heel to rotate, basically. It's also hard because sparring is where it comes out and it's hard to think through where my heel is because there's so much else going on.

But thank you, i have plenty to work on.

 

[DoctorTaco]

I think I'd have to see this in person to fully grasp and see what's going on, but Id say no you should not be rotating on your heel on the way back. The ball of your foot rather.

What you explain to me would lead me to believe that you are rotating on your heel when you throw the kick as well because if you were on the ball of your foot when you throw your kick when you bring your kick back to stance you should still be on the ball of your foot. When you are bringing your leg back to stance both feet should be landing at the same time so when your rear foot lands your lead leg should be landing flat or still on the ball of the foot but not on the heel.

I knew just what he meant bc I see people do it when I’m holding pads for them. After they land the kick the heel on their base leg drops. As the heel drops the toes lift and then they pivot back to position that way instead of pivoting on the ball of the foot as they come back from the kick.

 

[shincheckin]

Here's a clip of myself kicking from a good angle to see what I'm doing with my left heel

 

[Monte Moku]

Hello again! I have been working on a lot of adjustments, and now I feel my rear kick looks much different from before:

I have been focusing on taking my head off line a bit more (usually think about lining my head up with the big toe on my standing leg) and making sure there are no breakdowns in the kinetic chain while I am kicking. I have an old video of Superlek kicking a heavybag on my phone that I often use as a reference and you can almost see a wave moving through his body and transferring the energy at the end of the kick. I have noticed that I have what I call a "two step" kick, where I bring the kicking leg up linearly and then turn using my hip and core. Kiatmookao fighters (and most Thais) have a "one step" kick, where the hip turn seems to be a consequence of the movement itself and not something they have to keep muscling out -- their bodies are just going that way and the kick is "natural," if you will. Contrasting Superlek's kick with Karuhat's, I have also noticed that Superlek kicks a lot like him -- the main differences seem to be that Karuhat does not like to dig into the kick as much as Superlek, preferring to make contact and quickly whip it back so he can keep chaining into the next movement and not committing too much to one attack. I have felt that Karuhat's approach is very useful when I am fighting for position and trying to set things up/creating opportunities and Superlek's is best for interrupting rhythm (especially kicking at the wristguard to push on their head more), getting some respect from an agressive opponent or going for a heavy kill shot to the ribs.

Sorry for the ramble, my wife is kinda tired of hearing about my ideas and theories haha. At least twice a week, I am showing her videos of me kicking and comparing them to Superlek or mirrored videos of Petchpanomrung. I am pretty sure this is what it looks like to her

 

[Monte Moku]

The rear kick journey continues!



Overall things feel more cohesive. I can feel the kinetic chain moving through my body, like a wave of tension that starts in my shoulder and whips down to my toes. I feel more confident in what the right half of my body is doing, so now I am going to focus more on the left side. I have noticed that the Muay Thai habit of dropping the lead hand and then swiping it up to guard your face can help with power and speed production since the movement causes you to pull your left shoulder back (similar idea to focusing on whipping your right shoulder back during a left hook). I have also begun to see that my left foot isn't pivoted out enough before firing the kick off, and when I force myself to really turn my foot out, everything feels so 'right'. I am taking some time off of competition to focus on my career as well as build muscle and overall athleticism, so I'll have a lot more free time to dick around in the gym and obsess over kicking. I've also recently fallen in love with the jab, so maybe I'll start a thread about jabbing technique and stuff. We'll see! As always, any criticism or advice is welcome. Thank you for reading if you took the time to

 

[biscuitsbrah]

What about the switch kick?

 

[NoSmilez]

I think it's just lack of hip mobility and dexterity. Your stance did get better. I was watching your first video and you used to be super squared.

If I was going nitpick I would say play with different types of round kick. You are very upright when you throw your kick. What you are doing is not necessarily wrong but you want your head to be off the center or lean the trunk of your body slightly back. Again I just think it's a flexibility issue. It will go away when you train more and work on mobility.

 

[Monte Moku]

What about the switch kick?

I work on my switch kick as well, in fact my coach favors the use of the switch kick over the rear kick so I usually end up getting more volume work using the switch kick if I don't take the personal time to get extra reps on my rear side. I've been playing around with switching stances lately too, but it's not something I'm comfortable doing outside of light sparring yet.

I think it's just lack of hip mobility and dexterity. Your stance did get better. I was watching your first video and you used to be super squared.

If I was going nitpick I would say play with different types of round kick. You are very upright when you throw your kick. What you are doing is not necessarily wrong but you want your head to be off the center or lean the trunk of your body slightly back. Again I just think it's a flexibility issue. It will go away when you train more and work on mobility.

View attachment 1100165

I think you're right (and nitpicking is what I want! One of my goals in martial arts to have a beautiful Thai style kick). I stretch a ton and I'm actually pretty flexible, but I've noticed that I lack strength and control once I start getting to those end ranges of my mobility. I've recently started doing a calisthenics regimen based off of Gymnastics and Taekwondo exercises I've seen and I'm really excited for the results! I think it will help a lot in this regard