Rank in order what's most important for success in the fight game

[YoungCashMoney]

Curious as to what the general opinion is on different attributes and how important they are.

Offense:
Speed
Power
Timing
Accuracy/Precision

Defense:
Head Movement
Reaction Time
Footwork
Strong Guard (catching all the shots, some guys are tanks with this.. think Arthur Abraham)

In those 2 categories, where would you rank how important each attribute is? is it better to have faster hands than power? raw power over accuracy? What will have more success as a defensive fighter, someone who catches all the shots or someone who makes you miss completely?

Here is my opinion, I think offense is more important than defense, since landing blows is what wins fights, and in this order: Timing/Speed/Accuracy/Power, for defense I believe it goes Footwork/Reaction Time/Head Movement/Strong Guard. Guys with quick feet can literally run around opponent for days it seems, if they don't want to fight it is almost impossible to make them fight if they got good feet. The other defensive options can be penetrated much more successfully over beautiful footwork.

What do ya'll think? Feel free to add more traits/qualities I may have missed, I just picked the first 4 that pop up for me when I think offensive/defensive attributes.

Also, how much importance should be placed in having a good chin? Is it overrated? Or if anything, is it underrated?

Floyd Mayweather has many physical gifts, but I think by far his most underrated gift is his ability to absorb a punch. That on top of his defensive abilities makes beating him by knockout an extreme improbability. You'll never land the same shot twice on him, but once you do land that money punch that was set up/worked on all camp, he eats it for breakfast.

I'm sure a lotta y'all went through it but the Mayweather/Mcgregor fiasco had so many dummies talking to me about the fight, and the most common opinion from casuals was: when McGregor hits him with that left hand, Floyd will be knocked out. I told them all the same thing and was proven right during the fight, that if McGregor landed his vaunted left hand on Floyd, Floyd wouldn't even blink. If he somehow managed to land that money shot, Floyd would hardly react. As much as casuals that hate Floyd like to think he is a sissy who runs/hugs, the dude is tough as nails and clearly has a genetic gift in his chin, which I think is a huge reason he was as dominant as he was. It is hardly talked about though..

 

[j123]

Just bangin'

... That's all I got

 

[spacetime]

Offense:Timing, accuracy/precision, speed, power



Defence: reaction time, footwork, strong guard, head movement.

 

[ctrlaltdelete]

Consistency?

 

[fluffball]

Offense:
Timing
.
.
.
.
Accuracy/Precision
Speed
Power



Defense:
Footwork
.
.
.
.
Reaction Time
Head Movement
Strong Guard (catching all the shots, some guys are tanks with this.. think Arthur Abraham)




Edit: If you are a freak in some categories, you can overcome anything. For most guys that would be reaction time and power. You can basically brute force things.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Being able to read the other guys

 

[DoctorTaco]

Conditioning. Especially in amateurs, cardio wins fights. Cardio let’s you dictate the pace. It lets you overwhelm and over work your opponent. It keeps your opponent from thinking clearly and getting their bearing. It forces them to panic, to struggle and drown while you’re slowly pulling them under.

Conditioning keeps your head and moving and your legs strong. It keeps stank on your punches and the gravel in your gut. Have you ever shark tanked an elite fighter? You run him ragged and put him in there with a fresh kid who’s been boxing for 6 months and you’ll see a nearly even fight.

Conditioning.

 

[j123]

Srs answer:
Having balls. Sounds like a joke, but it matters quite a bit. If you don't care about what your opponent has to offer and impose your game how you want:

"who cares if he checks my leg kick, or if I eat a knee coming in from a cross". The more worried someone is, the more hesitant they are, and the attack will suffer. It'll be thrown slower, telegraphed (inc looking at where they'll strike), and pot-shotish, which leads to someone with "bigger balls" to implement their game, throw diverse strikes in volume, and the opposition shutting down.



...and also not getting caught by USADA is probably the most important thang.

 

[Ilk]

I am glad you brought Floyd to the discussion. Imo what Floyd is beyond everyone else is his fight IQ. You watch him always having an answer for his opponents. As you said you do not hit Floyd twice with the same shot. He is genious in defending and countering. And he has pretty simple offensive work.

What Floyd does really offensively?
Really good body jab, he is not head chasing. He trows that jab constantly and it pays in the long run as his opponents get tired.
Really good variety of jabs - I like how he extends his stance to land jabs from a safe distance, but the variation of jabs he has in his arsenal is huge.

and that is about it...

The rest is really good and smart footwork, good positioning, knowing what to expect from his opponents and countering, fuck he does not care if you corner him and start trowing tons of punches, he blocks them all and counters you. He observes very well, he sees, reads and beats you with whatever you bring.

So fight IQ for me is the most important. However fight IQ comes to play only when you have the needed fundamentals build in. Like you cant expect to counter that jab with right cross if you have not practised that millions of times. Without proper conditioning and etc. You also need a pretty smart coach who can see your strong sides and build you in the best way with a proper fight plan.

Just an example from my last work out. It is a very simple example but still. My coach saw I have a weak cross, a weak rear uppercut and we tried my rare hook. And it was pretty good. He liked it, we did few rounds setting it up on the pads and I was told to test it in the spar. I landed a pretty good one on my partner who is very experienced and he even complimented me. It is a small thing, but I am glad my coach discovered in me a reliable strong hit. This is exactly why a good coach is really critical.

 

[YoungCashMoney]

I am glad you brought Floyd to the discussion. Imo what Floyd is beyond everyone else is his fight IQ. You watch him always having an answer for his opponents. As you said you do not hit Floyd twice with the same shot. He is genious in defending and countering. And he has pretty simple offensive work.

What Floyd does really offensively?
Really good body jab, he is not head chasing. He trows that jab constantly and it pays in the long run as his opponents get tired.
Really good variety of jabs - I like how he extends his stance to land jabs from a safe distance, but the variation of jabs he has in his arsenal is huge.

and that is about it...

The rest is really good and smart footwork, good positioning, knowing what to expect from his opponents and countering, fuck he does not care if you corner him and start trowing tons of punches, he blocks them all and counters you. He observes very well, he sees, reads and beats you with whatever you bring.

So fight IQ for me is the most important. However fight IQ comes to play only when you have the needed fundamentals build in. Like you cant expect to counter that jab with right cross if you have not practised that millions of times. Without proper conditioning and etc. You also need a pretty smart coach who can see your strong sides and build you in the best way with a proper fight plan.

Just an example from my last work out. It is a very simple example but still. My coach saw I have a weak cross, a weak rear uppercut and we tried my rare hook. And it was pretty good. He liked it, we did few rounds setting it up on the pads and I was told to test it in the spar. I landed a pretty good one on my partner who is very experienced and he even complimented me. It is a small thing, but I am glad my coach discovered in me a reliable strong hit. This is exactly why a good coach is really critical.

True, however it isn't fight IQ alone that gives Floyd the ability to do what he does, he has insane reaction time and reflexes that are out of this world. Without the reaction time/reflexes he isn't beating top welterweights. Seems to me that to make it to the top you need to have some sort of genetic gift that stands out. A huge piece of Floyd's success is also his impeccable timing, add that to his lightning quick hands (when he was younger also lightning quick feet), and you get a Floyd Mayweather. He has all the gifts honestly except the gift of power at 147, of course thats why he is 50-0 and an all time great.

 

[Pugilistic]

Floyd had almost everything. Natural athletic talent, genius ring IQ, unmatched work ethic and discipline throughout his career, toughness, extreme confidence, a family of fighters who taught him the game from day one. He was versed in every aspect of fighting be it infighting, countering, fighting the pocket, and despite being known as a defensive fighter, he can bring the fight to you if he had to.
He also knew the sport aspect of it extremely well. He knew how to make the fight look like he's winning in the eyes of the judges to the point sometimes he can win by looking like he's barely doing anything. He knew how be the villain in a match up and play head games with his opponents too.
You also can't deny he played the fight game very well from the business side of things. He was matched very well for the most part. He didn't fight anybody too seasoned too early and get ruined like some fighters do, nor did he stall his career by fighting only nobodies to pad his record.

 

[right hand lead]

Ah this sounds like a fun discussion! Im answering this as an MMA coach and i have

Offense:
Timing
Accuracy
Speed
Power

Defense:
Footwork
Reaction time
Headmovent
Strong guard/catching/blocking (not the best defesne for small mma gloves imo)

 

[Ilk]

I would not count only the reactions really. He does a lot of preemptive defending. He trows the cross for example and ducks expecting a shot to come. Next time he trows that cross he slips right after it. This is why he is so illusive. He is always and I mean always defensively responsive. He knows his opponents and habits and is always ready to defend and defends even if offence does not come.

 

[Muay o Muay]

Add heart and conditioning to the list!

 

[fluffball]

Add heart and conditioning to the list!

On a whim I picked up "The Mind of a Fighter" a bunch of years ago. I guess it had a predecessor "The Heart of a Fighter". Mind interviewed and talked about a bunch of MMA guys, some wrestlers, and a couple boxers. Really interesting stuff. Diego Sanchez was one that was profiled, and I think he fits the category perfectly even if he's not the most accomplished. There is just something unnatural about the way he thinks. Not a lot of us -- or even pro fighters -- are ever going to be anywhere near someone like Sanchez's state of mind.

Wrestlers as a whole just have a freakish state of mind, too. The one highlighted was Dan Gable. There's no quit in most of them.

IIRC one of the themes across the fighters was a sort of delusion. Most of them felt they were they best of all time, were blessed by some sort of magical power/deity, etcetera. Not the kind of people you want to come across in a combat sport.

I don't think I'd make a very good UFC fighter since I'm an atheist and fully acknowledge there are a lot of people better than me.

 

[YoungCashMoney]

Add heart and conditioning to the list!

Conditioning. Especially in amateurs, cardio wins fights. Cardio let’s you dictate the pace. It lets you overwhelm and over work your opponent. It keeps your opponent from thinking clearly and getting their bearing. It forces them to panic, to struggle and drown while you’re slowly pulling them under.

Conditioning keeps your head and moving and your legs strong. It keeps stank on your punches and the gravel in your gut. Have you ever shark tanked an elite fighter? You run him ragged and put him in there with a fresh kid who’s been boxing for 6 months and you’ll see a nearly even fight.

Conditioning.

Conditioning is one of the best gifts without a doubt.. For most fighters, most athletic gifts go out the window when they get tired, a guy that throws 100+ punches a round and is constantly on top of you will break the will and stop most fighters regardless of what gifts in power and speed they possess.

I was high on Amir Imam and am still sad that he lost so much momentum but he's a perfect example. God gifted puncher great timing and boxing IQ, ran down and stopped by tough and rugged Adrian Granados simply because his work rate and conditioning were too good.

Take em to deep water & drown em.

 

[Chomsky Honk]

swag

 

[fluffball]

swag

Tom Lawler would be undefeated champ and GSP would be a financial analyst with an amateur kickboxing record.

 

[j123]

I don't think I'd make a very good UFC fighter since I'm an atheist and fully acknowledge there are a lot of people better than me.

A little PEDs will fix that!!!

 

[DoctorTaco]

On a whim I picked up "The Mind of a Fighter" a bunch of years ago. I guess it had a predecessor "The Heart of a Fighter". Mind interviewed and talked about a bunch of MMA guys, some wrestlers, and a couple boxers. Really interesting stuff. Diego Sanchez was one that was profiled, and I think he fits the category perfectly even if he's not the most accomplished. There is just something unnatural about the way he thinks. Not a lot of us -- or even pro fighters -- are ever going to be anywhere near someone like Sanchez's state of mind.

Wrestlers as a whole just have a freakish state of mind, too. The one highlighted was Dan Gable. There's no quit in most of them.

IIRC one of the themes across the fighters was a sort of delusion. Most of them felt they were they best of all time, were blessed by some sort of magical power/deity, etcetera. Not the kind of people you want to come across in a combat sport.

I don't think I'd make a very good UFC fighter since I'm an atheist and fully acknowledge there are a lot of people better than me.

Fighters have to believe they’re the baddest mother fucker on two feet. Their coaches have to find them matches they can win. I’ve seen a rash of guys going pro too soon and getting their asses beat because their coaches don’t care enough to temper that delusion and let these kids make their own matches.

Conditioning is one of the best gifts without a doubt.. For most fighters, most athletic gifts go out the window when they get tired, a guy that throws 100+ punches a round and is constantly on top of you will break the will and stop most fighters regardless of what gifts in power and speed they possess.

I was high on Amir Imam and am still sad that he lost so much momentum but he's a perfect example. God gifted puncher great timing and boxing IQ, ran down and stopped by tough and rugged Adrian Granados simply because his work rate and conditioning were too good.

Take em to deep water & drown em.

We train for 100 punches a round for our novice fighters, and between 120-150 for our open fighters. Smart pressure and busy hands win fights in the amateurs