Question : Pro Grappling Match Pay

[Paolo Delutis]

If the guy on top is really trying by engaging into the guard, there's no time for buttscouting.

There's only one guy fleeing the action, and he's on top afraid of being swept , leglocked or submitted by something he doesn't understand

Guys never buttscoot against me, they pull guard, but I'm never disengaging once they are on the ground I'm putting pressure and take the necessary risks that comes with trying a guard pass.

Why do you let them buttscout

as soon as he has his ass on the ground you should be on him getting grips to pass the guard. If he has to buttscoot to get to you, you're the one not engaging and wishing for some lazy running around guard pass to work

No body buttsoot against good grapplers, because the good grappler will try to get a guard pass

As always when discussing this topic some people do it in bad faith. No one "has to buttscoot to you", people do it because 1) They suck at takedowns and never bothered learning it 2) they focus 90% of they training on bottom position and want to game the rules to force the opponent to play top so they can have an advantage



The Miyao bros exist. Just two of many many elite grapplers who instantly pull guard against other elite grapplers

how about a time limit for butt scooting? like allow one minute, and if the scooter can't sweep the person standing up, and person standing can't pass then the scooter has to stand up.

I mean from a pure entertainment perspective, I don't know if people want to watch too much scooting.

There shouldn't be an advantage to being on the bottom, you should have pride and become the best guard passer possible

If he pulls guard make him pay, don't whine about it

And I don't really see why it's such a big deal that the guy is pulling guard on you, You end up pretty much in an equivalent position if you manage your takedown. Yes there's the points, but other than that from the top dominant takedown artists, you still need to pass the guard at some point

Even in IBJJF, the most points are for guard passing and taking dominant positions. It's not about who sweeps or get the takedown

I love a good takedown, but a lot of times, when no one is guard pulling, it starts to suck bad, last ADCC the worst matches where the one that had a shit ton of pushing and shoving. the action always started when someone was willing to get on the ground to get the action going

.


To nip all this in the butt,

This is not a BJJ competition...this will be a Grappling league...

Pulling guard without an immediate attack submission or sweep will result in a stand up ..

Butt scooting is a foul , dropping to knees/butt at the beginning of a match is a foul and will result with either a restart standing or a dominant position rewarded to the opponent and eventual DQ.

Timidity or purposely stalling at any point or position will result in a foul and restart or dominant position awarded to the offended opponent.


This is about finding the best grappler , not BJJ theres IJJF AND ADCC for that...this is something different if it happens

 

[Deleted member 592822]

There shouldn't be an advantage to being on the bottom, you should have pride and become the best guard passer possible

See that's what I said when I talked about bad faith. You're trying to invert all the values. I can then answer "you should have pride and not sit down in front of your opponent to avoid wrestling", and it would make lot more sense.

If he pulls guard make him pay, don't whine about it

"If he tries to take you down, defend it and make him pay, don't sit down like a wimp". See ?

And I don't really see why it's such a big deal that the guy is pulling guard on you, You end up pretty much in an equivalent position if you manage your takedown. Yes there's the points, but other than that from the top dominant takedown artists, you still need to pass the guard at some point

Even in IBJJF, the most points are for guard passing and taking dominant positions. It's not about who sweeps or get the takedown

Because being on bottom is an advantage with today's IBJJF rules. Everybody and their mothers know that.

 

[Deleted member 592822]

@Paolo Delutis relative to your question I read some time ago that the winner of submission underground (chael's promotion) gets a 10K check. Chael is pretty popular so take it relative to it

 

[Paolo Delutis]

@Paolo Delutis relative to your question I read some time ago that the winner of submission underground (chael's promotion) gets a 10K check. Chael is pretty popular so take it relative to it

Thanks i will add it to my data pool, ..

I will need to look into how i can protect my idea legally before i can bring it forth publicly , but these above arguments show the need for perhaps an alternative competition for grapplers as the trends in BJJ and other styles of competition seem to dictate the rules vs rules dictating the sport

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

do you know if any grappling orgs have tried using rules to get them on the ground? like if 5 minutes go by and nobody can get a takedown, they go to the ground in some way. maybe in @Paolo Delutis org they flip a coin or spin a wheel to see who starts in what position on the ground...half-serious but that could be fun

IIRC there used to be a Rorion-endorsed tournament that had a US folkstyle type system of three periods where you started first one on the feet, then top and bottom of guard based on a coin flip. I thought that was a pretty interesting idea.

 

[Quebec Nick]

good point. it's tough to find that good balance of "fewer rules to let them work" and "add rules to push the action".

do you know if any grappling orgs have tried using rules to get them on the ground? like if 5 minutes go by and nobody can get a takedown, they go to the ground in some way. maybe in @Paolo Delutis org they flip a coin or spin a wheel to see who starts in what position on the ground...half-serious but that could be fun

The end of the EBI format is pretty much that

The first EBI were awesome, and then you had people stalling until the overtime where we finally get some action

But it's butts in seats doctrine, nobody cares about boring grapplers.

After ADCC, I was from not caring about Vagner Rocha to hating that guy

 

[Quebec Nick]

If we ignore that buttscooting looks ridiculous, I'd have no issue with this if NOT for the points. That's the issue. The reason pulling guard and buttscooting are favored is because it denies points to the opponent. You're literally taking yourself down from standing and conceding a TD, but not giving up TD points. And then if you sweep your opponent, putting them in the same position you just put yourself, you get 2 points and are now up 2-0.

Why are sweeps rewarded? Because top position is better than being on bottom, all else being equal. If that's not true, why are sweeps worth any points? Why isn't top guy allowed to "pull guard" without conceding points?

For reel, I could go to a format with no takedown or sweeping points. It makes people shy to engage fully into guard passing.

The game should be about getting to the dominant position, so guard pass, mount and back

I would add points for side control after a guard pass, a sweep or a takedown

Just no recurring points (switching from mount to side control to get new points)

 

[Paolo Delutis]

good point. it's tough to find that good balance of "fewer rules to let them work" and "add rules to push the action".

do you know if any grappling orgs have tried using rules to get them on the ground? like if 5 minutes go by and nobody can get a takedown, they go to the ground in some way. maybe in @Paolo Delutis org they flip a coin or spin a wheel to see who starts in what position on the ground...half-serious but that could be fun

Well because my League is a Grappling League and not a BJJ league , alot of the issues your speaking has been addressed or been covered in the ruleset .. for example A major difference then any BJJ tournament out there is ...there is no points in my competitions , so trying to game the system into sweeps instead of takedowns isnt a thing.. neither is being rewarded infinite amount of points for simply going back and forth from dominant positions...( Side control to mount to north south..to side control to.mount ETC)
...


These positions are absolutely important to grappling and are included but judging and the match set is much different then anything that exists today i can guarantee that...

 

[Quebec Nick]

See that's what I said when I talked about bad faith. You're trying to invert all the values. I can then answer "you should have pride and not sit down in front of your opponent to avoid wrestling", and it would make lot more sense.



"If he tries to take you down, defend it and make him pay, don't sit down like a wimp". See ?



Because being on bottom is an advantage with today's IBJJF rules. Everybody and their mothers know that.

I wouldn't say that, the best grapplers right now and a lot of new stars have pretty good guard passing skills, like Tainan Dalpra, the Ruotolos. Leandro Lo, Buchecha, Bernardo... A shit load of their world titles was because they were able to pass the guard on pretty much everybody.

If you manage a sequence of guard passing to mount or to a back take, it's pretty much a sure win from there.

 

[ChickenBrother]

For reel, I could go to a format with no takedown or sweeping points. It makes people shy to engage fully into guard passing.

The game should be about getting to the dominant position, so guard pass, mount and back

I would add points for side control after a guard pass, a sweep or a takedown

Just no recurring points (switching from mount to side control to get new points)

I could get behind this. It's internally consistent and the objectives are clear. Agree that passing guard into dominant position i.e. side control, mount, back mount or north south should be what matters most, other than actual subs. While I think TDs are a powerful attack and an important part of grappling, if a ruleset wants to disregard them for scoring, it should at least do it consistently.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Hello Everyone,

For last year and half I've thought about and flirted with the idea of starting my own professional grappling only promotion.

This thread isn't about that as im still formulating and i dont want to give away anything about it in public till im locked with the idea.It wouldn't follow any existing grappling format we see currently see in BJJ or Olympic wrestling etc.This would be a new grappling sport with a much more balanced ruleset to fit all grappling styles from around the world.

That said i was wondering has anyone here competed or know people who have competed at the professional level of grappling and what are some of pay outs like?

Was there a per fight pay out..

Total tournament payout winner takes all

Super fight pay..

Anything would be helpful as i start to form what it might cost to actually get this thing going.

I promise if i do go forward with the idea i will come here first to let be known and i might even use Sherdog.com as the partner or platform to help launch it and scout competitors but im alittle ways away from that now.

Thanks to anyone who helps in this matter, im just looking for an idea what grapplers are currently getting paid at the pro level if anything.

View attachment 988575

Edit:
ADCC looks like $10,000-$40,000 is there ranges

https://adcombat.com/adcc-rules-regulations/adcc-championship-prize-money-allocation/

Id second the guy above, regarding experience event staff.
You could even offer your help to existing events, to get an idea how its done.

Ive organized over 60 events over the last 12 years, under different rule sets (even boxing, MMA), on several continents.

There is much you'd want to know, before investing yours, ir even worst, someone's money, in a journey, you don't have a map for.