Question : Pro Grappling Match Pay

[Paolo Delutis]

Hello Everyone,

For last year and half I've thought about and flirted with the idea of starting my own professional grappling only promotion.

This thread isn't about that as im still formulating and i dont want to give away anything about it in public till im locked with the idea.It wouldn't follow any existing grappling format we see currently see in BJJ or Olympic wrestling etc.This would be a new grappling sport with a much more balanced ruleset to fit all grappling styles from around the world.

That said i was wondering has anyone here competed or know people who have competed at the professional level of grappling and what are some of pay outs like?

Was there a per fight pay out..

Total tournament payout winner takes all

Super fight pay..

Anything would be helpful as i start to form what it might cost to actually get this thing going.

I promise if i do go forward with the idea i will come here first to let be known and i might even use Sherdog.com as the partner or platform to help launch it and scout competitors but im alittle ways away from that now.

Thanks to anyone who helps in this matter, im just looking for an idea what grapplers are currently getting paid at the pro level if anything.



Edit:
ADCC looks like $10,000-$40,000 is there ranges

https://adcombat.com/adcc-rules-regulations/adcc-championship-prize-money-allocation/

 

[Paolo Delutis]

IJF - Judo pay out $50,000 a year to the most successful judoka of the year..based on points

Olympics pay for wrestling and potentially judo or any sport i believe is $37,500 for a Gold Medal.and your country pays you whatever else it wants on top ..

Not sure if world championship for wrestling has prize money..

 

[Deleted member 592822]

Please make buttscooting and guard pulling illegal

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Please make buttscooting and guard pulling illegal

It is actually lol ...one of many rule set changes im proposing

You can only pull an opponent into an actual attack ...this way rolling techniques or jumping techniques can still be used ..but just starting a match and jumping into guard isnt allowed so you avoid the standing portion of grappling...

Butt scooting is just anti grappling all together and is treated like timidity

 

[Deleted member 592822]

It is actually lol ...one of many rule set changes im proposing

You can only pull an opponent into an actual attack ...this way rolling techniques or jumping techniques can still be used ..but just starting a match and jumping into guard isnt allowed so you avoid the standing portion of grappling...

Butt scooting is just anti grappling all together and is treated like timidity

That's great. Butt scooting is an immediate point deduction in my book.

What's your stance towards ring outs ?

 

[Paolo Delutis]

That's great. Butt scooting is an immediate point deduction in my book.

What's your stance towards ring outs ?

Under the ruleset and layout , only a portion of the ring can actually be stepped out of , the other sections have caged sides....again i don't want to give too much away ..

But stepping out on purpose/intentionally is a foul, and if done in avoidance of a technique like a takedown would result in the match restarting in a down position in the middle of the mat ...with the offender on the bottom... accident or incidental step outs result is a restart at center mat

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I think you should have experience working with professional grappling tournaments/promotions. Or at least have someone on board who does

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I think you should have experience working with professional grappling tournaments/promotions. Or at least have someone on board who does

Fair point it might be something i may look into thanks

 

[Quebec Nick]

It is actually lol ...one of many rule set changes im proposing

You can only pull an opponent into an actual attack ...this way rolling techniques or jumping techniques can still be used ..but just starting a match and jumping into guard isnt allowed so you avoid the standing portion of grappling...

Butt scooting is just anti grappling all together and is treated like timidity

Not engaging in the guard... is that a form of timidity

Like clowning around and whining about the other guy that isn't standing right up when you're 2 feet away and that you can just engage in a guard pass

Like actually grapple against a guy who is already sitting on his ass

 

[RemyR]

Not engaging in the guard... is that a form of timidity

Like clowning around and whining about the other guy that isn't standing right up when you're 2 feet away and that you can just engage in a guard pass

Like actually grapple against a guy who is already sitting on his ass

I'd argue that someone sitting down is being more timid than someone standing over them. This of course IMO but as someone who's been grappling for almost 20 years now it's time we cut this shit out. It's a definite black mark on the community.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Not engaging in the guard... is that a form of timidity

Like clowning around and whining about the other guy that isn't standing right up when you're 2 feet away and that you can just engage in a guard pass

Like actually grapple against a guy who is already sitting on his ass

I'd argue that someone sitting down is being more timid than someone standing over them. This of course IMO but as someone who's been grappling for almost 20 years now it's time we cut this shit out. It's a definite black mark on the community.

Under the ruleset i have, this position is considered a neutral one and really depends on whats taking place from each competitor , as that will dictate aggression which is part of the scoring criteria...so if the sitting fighting is working for a takedown or sweep it will be allowed to go on...if the standing fighter is trying to press him back or pass or attack it will carry on..

In the event the ref feels one grappler is just looking to hold off an opponent or is purposely not pursuing engagement in this position they will be stood back up and the match restarted from there..since its a neutral position and the default position for matches is standing.

If it is very clear one grappler is disengaging on purpose ( killing the clock,avoidance by all.means) ...then the ref can call a foul in which one of the recognized dominant positions will be awarded to his opponent and the match continues from there..this should should be a rare occurrence.

Recognized dominant positions.

Side control
Mount
Back Mount with hooks
Turtle position with side riding position engaged or a seatbelt like control position.

In the case of this being closest to a guard type position the ref would choose from Side control or mount depending on the severity of the foul or reoccurrance of fouls for the standing fouler or seated fouler.


Please note the sitted position or scooting is not allowed on its own... this would only be possible if coming off another technique or scramble... If an opponent simply walks away from a seated opponent then the match is restarted standing

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

Please make buttscooting and guard pulling illegal

maybe in between matches there can be some buttscoot races just for fun

 

[Quebec Nick]

I'd argue that someone sitting down is being more timid than someone standing over them. This of course IMO but as someone who's been grappling for almost 20 years now it's time we cut this shit out. It's a definite black mark on the community.

If the guy on top is really trying by engaging into the guard, there's no time for buttscouting.

There's only one guy fleeing the action, and he's on top afraid of being swept , leglocked or submitted by something he doesn't understand

Guys never buttscoot against me, they pull guard, but I'm never disengaging once they are on the ground I'm putting pressure and take the necessary risks that comes with trying a guard pass.

 

[Quebec Nick]

maybe in between matches there can be some buttscoot races just for fun

Why do you let them buttscout

as soon as he has his ass on the ground you should be on him getting grips to pass the guard. If he has to buttscoot to get to you, you're the one not engaging and wishing for some lazy running around guard pass to work

No body buttsoot against good grapplers, because the good grappler will try to get a guard pass

 

[Deleted member 592822]

Why do you let them buttscout

as soon as he has his ass on the ground you should be on him getting grips to pass the guard. If he has to buttscoot to get to you, you're the one not engaging and wishing for some lazy running around guard pass to work

No body buttsoot against good grapplers, because the good grappler will try to get a guard pass

As always when discussing this topic some people do it in bad faith. No one "has to buttscoot to you", people do it because 1) They suck at takedowns and never bothered learning it 2) they focus 90% of they training on bottom position and want to game the rules to force the opponent to play top so they can have an advantage

No body buttsoot against good grapplers, because the good grappler will try to get a guard pass

The Miyao bros exist. Just two of many many elite grapplers who instantly pull guard against other elite grapplers

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

Why do you let them buttscout

as soon as he has his ass on the ground you should be on him getting grips to pass the guard. If he has to buttscoot to get to you, you're the one not engaging and wishing for some lazy running around guard pass to work

No body buttsoot against good grapplers, because the good grappler will try to get a guard pass

how about a time limit for butt scooting? like allow one minute, and if the scooter can't sweep the person standing up, and person standing can't pass then the scooter has to stand up.

I mean from a pure entertainment perspective, I don't know if people want to watch too much scooting.

 

[Quebec Nick]

As always when discussing this topic some people do it in bad faith. No one "has to buttscoot to you", people do it because 1) They suck at takedowns and never bothered learning it 2) they focus 90% of they training on bottom position and want to game the rules to force the opponent to play top so they can have an advantage



The Miyao bros exist. Just two of many many elite grapplers who instantly pull guard against other elite grapplers

There shouldn't be an advantage to being on the bottom, you should have pride and become the best guard passer possible

If he pulls guard make him pay, don't whine about it

And I don't really see why it's such a big deal that the guy is pulling guard on you, You end up pretty much in an equivalent position if you manage your takedown. Yes there's the points, but other than that from the top dominant takedown artists, you still need to pass the guard at some point

Even in IBJJF, the most points are for guard passing and taking dominant positions. It's not about who sweeps or get the takedown

 

[Quebec Nick]

how about a time limit for butt scooting? like allow one minute, and if the scooter can't sweep the person standing up, and person standing can't pass then the scooter has to stand up.

I mean from a pure entertainment perspective, I don't know if people want to watch too much scooting.

I love a good takedown, but a lot of times, when no one is guard pulling, it starts to suck bad, last ADCC the worst matches where the one that had a shit ton of pushing and shoving. the action always started when someone was willing to get on the ground to get the action going

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

I love a good takedown, but a lot of times, when no one is guard pulling, it starts to suck bad, last ADCC the worst matches where the one that had a shit ton of pushing and shoving. the action always started when someone was willing to get on the ground to get the action going

good point. it's tough to find that good balance of "fewer rules to let them work" and "add rules to push the action".

do you know if any grappling orgs have tried using rules to get them on the ground? like if 5 minutes go by and nobody can get a takedown, they go to the ground in some way. maybe in @Paolo Delutis org they flip a coin or spin a wheel to see who starts in what position on the ground...half-serious but that could be fun

 

[ChickenBrother]

There shouldn't be an advantage to being on the bottom, you should have pride and become the best guard passer possible

If he pulls guard make him pay, don't whine about it

And I don't really see why it's such a big deal that the guy is pulling guard on you, You end up pretty much in an equivalent position if you manage your takedown. Yes there's the points, but other than that from the top dominant takedown artists, you still need to pass the guard at some point

If we ignore that buttscooting looks ridiculous, I'd have no issue with this if NOT for the points. That's the issue. The reason pulling guard and buttscooting are favored is because it denies points to the opponent. You're literally taking yourself down from standing and conceding a TD, but not giving up TD points. And then if you sweep your opponent, putting them in the same position you just put yourself, you get 2 points and are now up 2-0.

Why are sweeps rewarded? Because top position is better than being on bottom, all else being equal. If that's not true, why are sweeps worth any points? Why isn't top guy allowed to "pull guard" without conceding points?