Question about Protected Classes

[Repairman1988]

So I have a question for you guys. Veterans are not considered a protected class at the federal level, so the U.S. department of education civil rights department will not investigate issues concerning discrimination torwards a veteran by a University.

But my question is, If the school itself considers Veterans a protected class, is that school then held liable for discrimination against veterans? I'm sorry if thats worded weird but I hope you get my point. Would there be a basis for a legal argument accusing the school of discrimination against veterans, if the school itself considers them a protected class (even though they are not at the federal level). I have a very interesting dispute with a University here in California and the school does consider veterans a protected class. (I have it in writing).

Thanks for any input!

 

[panamaican]

There might be a basis for claiming the school is violating it's policies but I don't think you could make a federal discrimination lawsuit out of it. Think of it like a breach of contract where the school contracted with the students (specifically the veteran students) to treat veterans a certain way and then breached that contract.

Take all of that with a massive side-eye since it's California and I know next to diddly-squat on how they do things over there.

 

[djacobox372]

First, you can sue for ANYTHING. But you're not likely to win unless you can prove a crime was committed.

If it's a state school than their policies are akin to state law, and hence they may be held criminally liable.

If it's a private school than they can do whatever they want, the only case you may have is one of fraud, but you'd have to prove damages which would be tough.

 

[panamaican]

First, you can sue for ANYTHING. But you're not likely to win unless you can prove a crime was committed.

If it's a state school than their policies are akin to state law, and hence they may be held criminally liable.

If it's a private school than they can do whatever they want, the only case you may have is one of fraud, but you'd have to prove damages which would be tough.

Politely ignore this.

There's nothing criminal about state schools violating their policies. It's still a civil litigation matter. And their policies are nothing like state laws.

 

[Repairman1988]

Hmm maybe being specific would help. So the school "had" a Veterans Exception Policy, which basically laid out a set of guidelines and rules for admissions submitted by a veteran. My specific issue, was that it wasnt routed the way it was supposed to in the slightest. Also, It states that they had the ability in "uncommon" instances to waive math and english requirements for veteran transfer. Really long story short, they denied my application almost immidiately for not have a college level math credit (I have everything else), told me to go to community college and that was that. When i asked about the veterans exception policy, I was just ignored for two months until i CC'ed the entire schools administration in an email basically asking what the &$^@ was going on.

They then recognized the error of their wa- Just kidding. They deleted the policy off the website, acted like they hadnt used it in years, and told me they never waive math requirements for students ever. They said alll students are treated equally (veterans exception policy...hmm..interesting name). Luckily I saved the policy before they did that. I then asked, what was a set of circumstances in which a veteran could be admitted, if they lacked a Math requirement trying to transfer. Although the exception policy stated it was uncommon, that does not mean never. They basically at this point refuse to address anything I say.

The only reason this matter is that in order to use my GI Bill education benefits, I must attend school full time, and they must be classes I need torward a degree. Since they are pushing community college on me, it would be impossible to use my benefits there because I only need one math credit...I am disabled and unable to work awaiting my Veterans Affairs benefits to kick in so I depend on the GI bill as a source of income along with trying to continue my education. Way more too it but I dont want to bore anyone to death.

 

[panamaican]

Hmm maybe being specific would help. So the school "had" a Veterans Exception Policy, which basically laid out a set of guidelines and rules for admissions submitted by a veteran. My specific issue, was that it wasnt routed the way it was supposed to in the slightest. Also, It states that they had the ability in "uncommon" instances to waive math and english requirements for veteran transfer. Really long story short, they denied my application almost immidiately for not have a college level math credit (I have everything else), told me to go to community college and that was that. When i asked about the veterans exception policy, I was just ignored for two months until i CC'ed the entire schools administration in an email basically asking what the &$^@ was going on.

They then recognized the error of their wa- Just kidding. They deleted the policy off the website, acted like they hadnt used it in years, and told me they never waive math requirements for students ever. They said alll students are treated equally (veterans exception policy...hmm..interesting name). Luckily I saved the policy before they did that. I then asked, what was a set of circumstances in which a veteran could be admitted, if they lacked a Math requirement trying to transfer. Although the exception policy stated it was uncommon, that does not mean never. They basically at this point refuse to address anything I say.

The only reason this matter is that in order to use my GI Bill education benefits, I must attend school full time, and they must be classes I need torward a degree. Since they are pushing community college on me, it would be impossible to use my benefits there because I only need one math credit...I am disabled and unable to work awaiting my Veterans Affairs benefits to kick in so I depend on the GI bill as a source of income along with trying to continue my education. Way more too it but I dont want to bore anyone to death.

That's going to be an uphill fight. The problem is that if they only waive the math requirements in "uncommon" circumstances then proving that you were wronged will require proof of times when they did waive it and that those times were very similar to your circumstances.

I don't have anything resembling a solution to your problem, have you tried to talking to Veteran Affairs about it? Maybe they can pull some strings to get your math requirement waived?

 

[UpaLoompa]

Presumably you're not currently enrolled because of this. Why not fulfill your math requirement over the summer?

What "uncommon" circumstances make you think that you should have the math requirement waived on your behalf?

Finally, I'd like to see an argument about why a math requirement should ever be waived.

 

[Repairman1988]

Sorry guys, maybe I phrased it wrong. Great job spotting that though and thank you for your time reading. I want to mention one thing real quick, and that is that I hope i do not convey a sense of entitlement as a veteran with this issue. I merely want to hold them accountable to the policy they had in place at the time of my attempt at admission.

Pana- That's kind of my argument except I do not have to provide proof that they have waived math for other veterans. This is because they are quoted as saying (I have it in writing from my emails with them) that they have NEVER waived a math requirement for anyone. Ever. Veteran or not. So my line of logic makes me think, then why does that clause even exist within Veterans exception policy? It doesn't say never, it says uncommon. So I asked them, since the policy states that is it uncommon (not never), Under what circumstances would they admit a Veteran without math? Basically what would it take since the policy said they can? I should also mention that the policy was in place for around 5 months during this back and forth fighting before they deleted it. I hope I'm comng across right.

Dochter- I only argue for the "uncommon" possibility of it being waived, based on the verbage of the exception policy that was in place. They are stating they they have never, not once, waived math. Nor has it ever been their policy to do so (conflicting with the veterans exception policy).

I have no idea what a set of circumstances would be in which it could be waived, so that's why I asked directly. Their answer was that there are no circumstances nor have there ever been. They deleted the policy to cover their tracks and do not acknowledge it in any way.

I hope I clarified this! Thank you very much for your points of view

 

[UpaLoompa]

Dochter- I only argue for the "uncommon" possibility of it being waived, based on the verbage of the exception policy that was in place. They are stating they they have never, not once, waived math. Nor has it ever been their policy to do so (conflicting with the veterans exception policy).

I have no idea what a set of circumstances would be in which it could be waived, so that's why I asked directly. Their answer was that there are no circumstances nor have there ever been. They deleted the policy to cover their tracks and do not acknowledge it in any way.

The fact that they've never actually waived says all you really need to know, take a math course over the summer. You'll be better off for it anyway.

Clearly they should have had some formal policy in place but it's moot anyway. Frankly, a lot of those sorts of statements get put in but then never get noticed and so whatever the original intent was two administrations ago gets forgotten.

 

[panamaican]

Pana- That's kind of my argument except I do not have to provide proof that they have waived math for other veterans. This is because they are quoted as saying (I have it in writing from my emails with them) that they have NEVER waived a math requirement for anyone. Ever. Veteran or not. So my line of logic makes me think, then why does that clause even exist within Veterans exception policy? It doesn't say never, it says uncommon. So I asked them, since the policy states that is it uncommon (not never), Under what circumstances would they admit a Veteran without math? Basically what would it take since the policy said they can? I should also mention that the policy was in place for around 5 months during this back and forth fighting before they deleted it. I hope I'm comng across right.

I would think that if they've never waived it then they've never run across a set of circumstances so "uncommon" as to warrant it. You have to believe there's something very unique about your situation to justify you being the first. I won't press but consider that.

If you're situation isn't particularly unique then there's no reason for them to extend you a privilege that they've probably denied to countless others. That said, I do understand your frustration.