Pushing vs snapping

[WillW]

You want to punch through the target, but dont overkill that concept. Punch through but stop after a little bit vs. keep going that could put you off balance, make it harder to recover or waste more energy

How do you extend your arm without using your triceps?

:icon_lol:

The body moves as one. If it stops moving before the arm impacts then power is being lost. The body isn't a whip no matter how much people like that analogy.

So the shoulder and hips turn at the same time? or do the hips turn and then the punch is released by rotating the shoulder, keeping elbow close to body WHILE hips turning

 

[a guy]

You want to punch through the target, but dont overkill that concept. Punch through but stop after a little bit vs. keep going that could put you off balance, make it harder to recover or waste more energy


:icon_lol:



So the shoulder and hips turn at the same time? or do the hips turn and then the punch is released by rotating the shoulder, keeping elbow close to body WHILE hips turning

Shoulders and hips together. There will be some delay in the arm going because it's such a small movement and it would finish before the hips if both started at the exact same time, but the delay is very small. The important part is that right before impact, everything is producing maximum power.

 

[WillW]

Shoulders and hips together. There will be some delay in the arm going because it's such a small movement and it would finish before the hips if both started at the exact same time, but the delay is very small. The important part is that right before impact, everything is producing maximum power.

not sure if we are in agreement or not.

Of course any delay in something like a punch will be very very small. but there still is a delay. Your shoulder does not turn over at the same time the hips do imo

 

[Perfect form]

Shoulders and hips together. There will be some delay in the arm going because it's such a small movement and it would finish before the hips if both started at the exact same time, but the delay is very small. The important part is that right before impact, everything is producing maximum power.

The body excluding the arms and legs. Is this part rigid like a plank?

 

[a guy]

not sure if we are in agreement or not.

Of course any delay in something like a punch will be very very small. but there still is a delay. Your shoulder does not turn over at the same time the hips do imo

There isn't a delay between the shoulders and hips. Your torso should be stable, not moving as two separate pieces.

 

[a guy]

The body excluding the arms and legs. Is this part rigid like a plank?

When/how much the legs rotate depends on the punch. The main point is, as I said, that everything is peaking right before impact.

 

[WillW]

There isn't a delay between the shoulders and hips. Your torso should be stable, not moving as two separate pieces.

yes the core/torso rotation happens because of the hips. the shoulder rotation is the separate part. at-least that is how I was taught for certain punches

I always recognize and respect different punching techniques

 

[Phlog]

Snapping a punch is having all of the components involved producing maximum speed(to a lesser extent power) at the point of impact.

When one pushes punches one is saving power and applying it in the follow through which 'feels' like your doing work, because you are bracing against then pushing a heavy object.

In a snapped punch one only really feels deceleration upon impact and that feels pretty much like nothing.

 

[StopDucking]

Why is this even a thread? Somebody doesn't know the difference between pushing and snapping? You've got to be kidding me!

 

[Perfect form]

What am I missing?

Exaggerated, is this not how you should punch?

Why don't the baseball pitcher move his hips and shoulder at the same time?

 

[Perfect form]

Why is this even a thread? Somebody doesn't know the difference between pushing and snapping? You've got to be kidding me!

Sorry to disturb your slumber.

 

[a guy]

What am I missing?

Exaggerated, is this not how you should punch?

Why don't the baseball pitcher move his hips and shoulder at the same time?

No, it's not how you should punch. Mostly because of the arm mechanics and follow through. His hips and shoulders DO move together though. Look from the second to third frame. Also, if you watch a pitch, you'll notice that the body keeps moving even after the ball leaves the hand, and that the ball leaves the hand just as the shoulders and hips are hitting the end of their range of motion. Keep in mind that during a pitch, there does not need to be structure at the end because there is no impact.

 

[Perfect form]

No, it's not how you should punch. Mostly because of the arm mechanics and follow through. His hips and shoulders DO move together though. Look from the second to third frame. Also, if you watch a pitch, you'll notice that the body keeps moving even after the ball leaves the hand, and that the ball leaves the hand just as the shoulders and hips are hitting the end of their range of motion. Keep in mind that during a pitch, there does not need to be structure at the end because there is no impact.

Why would you need structure more than the arm and fist? Are we not looking to create an elastic collision?

What I see when I try to picture your punch it's like punching with a extended stiff arm. In other words an inelastic collision.

 

[a guy]

Why would you need structure more than the arm and fist? Are we not looking to create an elastic collision?

What I see when I try to picture your punch it's like punching with a extended stiff arm. In other words an inelastic collision.

You need structure because without it force isn't delivered. It gets lost at joints that are unstable or weak. Punching with an extended stiff arm is not at all what I'm describing.

 

[ChachiKiller]

You need structure because without it force isn't delivered. It gets lost at joints that are unstable or weak. Punching with an extended stiff arm is not at all what I'm describing.

I would like to pipe in and say that you can hit anybody like that. I think Chuck Liddell used to talk of his overhand right being like a baseball pitch.

I read Guy's posts and it seems like you really have to be distorting his point.

This is like the debate I was in about spinning back kicks. They called it a turn and a turn id a vague notion. The literal distinction between turn and spin is the use of the word quickly, speaking to the role of acceleration.

I thing somewhere, it is in the interpretation.

 

[Perfect form]

I would like to pipe in and say that you can hit anybody like that. I think Chuck Liddell used to talk of his overhand right being like a baseball pitch.

I read Guy's posts and it seems like you really have to be distorting his point.

This is like the debate I was in about spinning back kicks. They called it a turn and a turn id a vague notion. The literal distinction between turn and spin is the use of the word quickly, speaking to the role of acceleration.

I thing somewhere, it is in the interpretation.

I disagree with the bold.

I asked for a metaphor to better convey ideas and go beyond problems with definition of words. I believe I've offered ways of expressing with the collision gifs. The explanations a guy offers can be understood but there is something missing. The end is missing. What is the result? If we have the result surely we can better understand the method.

A perfect punch. At the exact impact what is it we see? how is our body structured? What is the collision we have?

 

[Captain_Dammitt]

I don't think throwing a baseball is a good parallel to punching. When throwing a ball you're focused on throwing a little ball as hard as you can but in punching you have need to throw your hand out there quickly, yes, but at the same time you need to be able to hit with your body weight. If you only focus on the fist you will throw your weight so far forward and be so off balance you have no weight behind it. Well, there is some but not the max you can get. You need to be able to ground yourself for max power transference not just getting your hand out there. If anything, hitting the ball is more like punching than pitching it is.

Think about stomping the ground as hard as you can. If you stomp and then keep pushing (pushing punch) it does nothing but waste your energy. The real umph is the initial hit of your foot on the ground. That's the power from a snapping punch.

 

[Captain_Dammitt]

The rotation starts at the hip but while the hip initiates the movement the shoulders don't really have a choice but to move with the hips.

Watch the fluidity and notice the position the golfer ends in... not unlike the end of a punch.

Look similar?

Even Chuck's "baseball throw" isn't the much like throwign a baseball. He's leaning in to get that angle, his base stays down and he's not throwing his weight forward.

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

Well this thread is all over the place but I want to chime in with my theories.

First, the hip whip debate can be settled if you focus in on the word whip. The motion of a whip is perpendicular to the direction of the propagation. So, a whip handle moves up and down but the wave propagates outward. This is different from a compression wave and IMO the difference between 2 styles of punching.

I won't go into it unless someone shows interest, but you can't push anything with a whip, and in theory you can't push a purely whipping punch. Shearing force doesn't work that way. A compression wave can act in a number of ways depending on a number of factors. It can snap, thud, or push. The point is you can't compare the two without understanding that.

If your punches are whip-like then your punches are probably snap-like. If your punches are more compression-like then you have to consider the points made by most in this thread.

 

[Phlog]

What am I missing?

Exaggerated, is this not how you should punch?

Why don't the baseball pitcher move his hips and shoulder at the same time?

You're missing that he DOES. Every aspect of the chain is moving it's fastest by point of release.