Punching power, chins and weightclasses

[SalvadorAllende]

I just read an interesting discussion about Hunt/Rumble power and I think we can have a nice dicussion over weightclasses, punchin power and chins.

Often people like to make statements (mostly for hyping purposes) that X fighter have the power of a higher weightclass or something like that (Bold statement, Conor coach said he had the power of a LHW, LOL).

Let me introduce a few examples (and you can counter it with opposite examples):

Frankie Edgar: He was always knew as a pillowfisted fighter. The only good KO he had at LW was over Gray Maynard and that was late in the 4th and a few fights before "The bully" started to get KOed a lot.
Call it old man strenght or anything but since dropping to 145 he looked a lot better and even in his last fight he 1 punch KOed a guy with a solid chin in Mendes, something Aldo and Conor were not able.
I can be mistaken, but we still have to see Frankie get hurt at FW.

Stipe Miocic: Not too long ago he was known as the HW version of Michael Bisping: A pillowfisted point striker who could eventually get a TKO.
I remember that mismatch against Fabio Maldonado. A lot of people thought that Fabio well known thoughness was going to make the fight somewhat competitive. After all he survived to a massive beating of supposedly huge and powerful LHW Glover Teixeira (stopped only by the doctor) and had a lot of wars and awful striking defense. Even after the Stipe fight he fought Rampage (another LHW knowing for his power).
The second he got touched by a HW he just went down. That fight lasted 35 seconds.

Conor McGregor:
He is known as not just a FW KO artist...but a 1 punch KO artist. Maybe the most powerful FW ever. Every guy his left hand touches goes instantly down. From Poirer, Brandao, Mendes to Jose fucking Aldo. Guy was incredible.
Also.. ate everything everybody landed to him like nothing. And Im talking specially about bombs from (another punching power ace) Mendes. His chin was referred as granite.
Going up to WW (but in reality it was a glorified LW bout) he did not find any success. Not only none of his punches were able to really hurt an out of shape Nate Diaz (ok, Nate is a pretty though guy)... but he got tagged a few times and crumbled... his chin could not hang with a bigger guy.
Nate is not known for his power but it is an amazing volume boxer. He did not land much in round 1 against Conor and started to find his rythm in the 2nd. Shortly after Conor started to backpedalling and ended up being rocked by 1-2s. Where was that epic that night?

I think I can go a lot further but Im at work and people are starting to watch me like "WTF are you doing?"

 

[Emjay]

"Iron" or "glass" chins are myths as are "pillow" fists

No two punches land the same. Dudes can get KOd if the right shot lands at the right time as evidenced by EVERY KO EVER

 

[Peteyandjia]

"Iron" or "glass" chins are myths as are "pillow" fists

It's not that simple.

I agree that the chin issue is overstated or misused constantly, but there is definitely some variation. The Diaz Bros for example, clearly have some adamantium laced around the bones in their head.

Same with 'pillow fists'. It's way overused, but true in some cases. I'm pretty sure if Jake Shields punched a broken window, it would un-break.

 

[Emjay]

It's not that simple.

I agree that the chin issue is overstated or misused constantly, but there is definitely some variation. The Diaz Bros for example, clearly have some adamantium laced around the bones in their head.

Same with 'pillow fists'. It's way overused, but true in some cases. I'm pretty sure if Jake Shields punched a broken window, it would un-break.

I think it's more about when the shot lands than who is catching and receiving. Some guys are better and not getting hit at a time where it would be REALLY bad for them to be hit. Others, not so much.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

"Iron" or "glass" chins are myths as are "pillow" fists

No two punches land the same. Dudes can get KOd if the right shot lands at the right time as evidenced by EVERY KO EVER

I agree.

 

[Peteyandjia]

I think it's more about when the shot lands than who is catching and receiving. Some guys are better and not getting hit at a time where it would be REALLY bad for them to be hit. Others, not so much.

Yeah there is so much variance involved, it's hard to nail down an exact science. I definitely think some guys have strong or weak chins & power though.

 

[Deleted member 501827]

The Stipe vs Maldonado fight was somewhat shocking. I mean it was pretty obvious Stipe would win but it just seemed ridiculous that he would just touch Fabio and he would get rocked or go down. They werent even big wind up punches either. Stip just walked through him like he wasnt even there and weve seen Fabio take inhuman punishment from LHWs before.

 

[Sonny Qc]

Bisping = pillow fist
Condit = Iron chin

 

[King.]

while i do think power can and will improve (drastically even in some cases), is it also not just the case of an MMA fighter's whole game coming together? Also, I think COnor is a bad example as Nate is tough as nails. Anyone would have a hard time putting his lights out. I think in the case of fighters like Miocic and Edgar, it's more a question of timing and accuracy / technique.

 

[Emjay]

Yeah there is so much variance involved, it's hard to nail down an exact science. I definitely think some guys have strong or weak chins & power though.

Sure some guys can generate more force than other guys, but realizing the application of that force at the right moment shouldn't be how we define whether the recipient of the force has a "strong" or "weak" ... "chin".

I've said it a zillion and twelve times: I won't buy into the "chin" myth until everyone can agree upon where the "chin" starts and stops, lol

 

[Peteyandjia]

I won't buy into the "chin" myth until everyone can agree upon where the "chin" starts and stops, lol

It starts with Urijah Faber, and it ends with this chick.

 

[King.]

the "chin" is somewhat of a mystery. For example, Arlovski has always been a "glass cannon" but during his last fights his chin / abiilty to not go down on heavy blows seemed to have improved. until he ran into miocic, then it was lights out in one punch. had me going "what the fuck is this?"

 

[Ceez]

Yeah there is so much variance involved, it's hard to nail down an exact science. I definitely think some guys have strong or weak chins & power though.

Pretty much. Some fighters have the ability to handle the damage others not so much. Kind of easy to cop out of the argument and say "dudes get KOd if the right shot lands at the right time as evidenced by EVERY KO EVER" when it takes enough power landed in the right spot to produce the KO and not everyone has the same power. Also where they are at in the fight, guys like Nate are going to accumulate shots landed over the course of a few rounds to be able to produce a KO because he doesn't throw full power punches instead reserving his energy to be able to last 3-5 rounds.

It's not an exact science but the are very relevant factors and variables that certain fighters possess and others not so much if that makes any sense at all.

 

[Emjay]

Pretty much. Some fighters have the ability to handle the damage others not so much. Kind of easy to cop out of the argument and say "dudes get KOd if the right shot lands at the right time as evidenced by EVERY KO EVER" when it takes enough power landed in the right spot to produce the KO and not everyone has the same power.

Sometimes it's the guy getting punched that is supplying the power to the shot.

 

[Ceez]

Sometimes it's the guy getting punched that is supplying the power to the shot.

Agreed

 

[Red Ninja]

Fighters are born not made. You either have punching power or not. Same with a chin.

 

[Ez Eric]

There are countless other examples of a smaller man KOing a bigger man.

Vitor has multiple KOs at HW.

Wand stopped Iron Head Fujita with strikes when several HWs could not.

Fedor knocking out Arlovski and Brett Rodgers and a lot of bigger guys.

Anderson Silva went up to 205 and destroyed Forrest and Irvin. I believe the Bonnar fight was also at 205.