Primer on WMMA and the Ronda/Cyborg situation. Cyborg is the one who has ducked/ran

[ejlarson249]

With all of these Ronda/Cyborg, and Ronda ducked threads, it is pretty obvious that most are new to WMMA and haven't been following the situation for a long time. For those of us who have, it is pretty obvious that Cyborg is the reason the fight hasn't happened. She has ducked/ran, lied and changed her mind a hundred times about nearly everything you can think of over the last four years to the point that nothing she says or does can be taken seriously.

First, the histry of Ronda going to 135 is outlined in this historical sherdog thread:

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/92583821-post954.html

Then, what happend next was that Ronda beat Budd and Cyborg got busted for steroids. Ronda still agrees to fight Cyborg at 145 (According to Cyborg and her lawyers) for the FW title. However, with Cyborg unable to get her suspension reduced SF gets rid of the 145 class, effectively cancelling the fight (Cyborg's ruins the fight #1).
http://www.mmamania.com/2012/4/9/29...on-upheld-strikeforce-ronda-rousey-female-mma

Cyborg then says she will fight Ronda at a catchweight of 140 (Aug 13, 2012)
http://www.mmamania.com/2012/8/13/3240734/cris-cyborg-ronda-rousey-fight-catchweight

To which Ronda's manager agrees with VADA drug and hair folicle testing (Aug 19)
http://www.mmamania.com/2012/8/20/3256102/ronda-rousey-drug-testing-cyborg-steroids-strikeforce-mma

To which Cyborg backs out almost instantly saying she "will fight at 145, no less" and that she is the champion (actually she wasn't, she was stripped of the belt), and Cyborg ruins the fight for a second time, and ducks Ronda directly for the first time.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ight-rousey-at-145-pounds----no-less/828222/1

Then the UFC buys SF and picks up Ronda's contract and creates the 135 class. Then, the UFC picks up Cyborg's contract and even offers to let her to go Invicta and make money while she trims down until she can make 135. They even offered to PAY Mike Dolce for her to help her lose the weight.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/12/...es-services-to-get-cyborg-to-135-ronda-rousey
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/12/...dy-fat-percentage-cain-velasquez-ronda-rousey


Cyborg responds by asking to be released from the UFC. (Cyborg ruins the fight #3, Cyborg ducks Ronda #2)

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Then, the UFC gets cozy with Invicta, puts them on fightpass and makes an agreement that Cyborg will get into the UFC if she makes 135. Cyborg signs a contract to make 135 in Dec 2014, but continues to lift weights on a daily basis and doesn't even try to cut the weight, pulling out of the fight and saying she will continue to fight at 145, but that she will still fight Ronda at 145, effectively ducking the fight again (duck #3) by not agreeing to the terms that will get her the bout agreement

This doesn't even take into account all the times Cyborg says she is going to 135, then she will die if she does, then she will be fine, then dead again ... etc.

Here is Cyborg weighing in at 140

she doesn't exactly look like a concentration camp victim, she is still carrying a ton of muscle mass. She just has to drop five pounds of it and the fight is on. Cyborg is just too psychologically attached/addicted to her muscle mass to let it go. She knows she can keep her name in the headlines by barking at Ronda from a distance, while never having to actually take the fight.

Cyborg has no leverage to dictate the terms. Ronda is going nowhere, she is a stationary target, if Cyborg wants the fight, she knows where she has to go to get it.

EDIT: Five days ago Cyborg said "she could make 140 tomorrow"
http://mmajunkie.com/2015/02/cyborg...ufc-champ-ronda-rousey-at-140-pounds-tomorrow

So lose five pounds of muscle and make the fight. Quit running.

You are wrong. I hope that stings a little after all the work you put in to try to obfuscate the truth.

Honda fought at 145 until she realized she would face Cyborg. Then she randomly dropped to 135 and told Cyborg if she wanted to fight it would be at 135.

That is straight documented facts. You can assign any reasons you want to the facts, but you can't change the facts.

 

[clayj]

Bottom line is that Cyborg can't healthily make 135. And even if she could she'd be substantially weaker. So why can't Rousey step up and fight her at 145 where she used to fight at and where she'd be perfectly capable of fighting at? I don't wanna hear she's the champ blah blah blah. Who cares about any of that belt shit. She said she'd fight Carano at 145 so why not Cyborg?? Everyone wants to see the fight. Everyone. Get it done and let's see the outcome. Even if Cyborg somehow managed to make 135 and Ronda beat her there the question would still remain and be argued that Ronda couldn't beat a healthy Cyborg. That she could only beat a depleted Cyborg at a weakened stage.

Are you telling me the Cyborg in the photo where she weighs 140 wouldn't still be the most ripped and physical woman at 135, even with five pounds less muscle mass? Cyborg could make the weight easily, she just refuses to quit lifting weights and training for size.

 

[The5thgod]

You obviously didn't read any of the links, but that is exactly what I expected. Cyborg fans are completely delusional, even when evidence from Cyborg's own mouth damns whatever point they are trying to make ... From the given information is OBVIOUS that Ronda has never ducked Cyborg.

However, Cyborg offered a catch weight and when Ronda's team went to accept, Cyborg took back her offer. Cyborg's contract was picked up by the UFC (where Ronda fights), but she chose to ask for a release so she could go fight somewhere where there would be a 0% chance of fighting Ronda. She even refused the UFC's offer to pay Dolce to help her, making it even more obvious that she had no intention of even trying to be in Ronda's weight class, where the fight could actually happen. Her goal has been to lift weights and make sure she could always say she is too big to go to 135.

It is obvious from the photo that even at 140 she is carrying a ton of muscle mass, she could easily cut 5 lbs and make it happen, but she just doesn't want to.

Also, we are six pages in and zero counter points offered from the Ronda haters .... Did Cyborg lie when she said she would do the catch weight in Aug 2012? Did she lie at the athletic commission hearing when she said there was a fight lined up with Ronda at 145 for the summer? Did she expect Ronda to chase her to Invicta after she asked out of her UFC contract? I have absolutely no idea what are the Ronda hater's counter points.

Who cares about any counter points and the she said this/she said that shit. Rousey should step up and fight at 145 and there would be no questions or arguments. Who cares about the belt. Everyone wants to see the fight. Let them both fight where they'd both be equally healthy and able. Every other Superfight talked about has the champ stepping up. So why the exception for Rousey? Protection is why. If it wasn't the UFC this fight would have already happened.

 

[SolidIce]

Eh 50 years from now, Ronda will bave been the Royce of WMMA, and no one will remember who Cyborg was . It is what it is

 

[FountOfWisdom]

You obviously didn't read any of the links, but is what I expected. Cyborg fans are completely delusional, even when evidence from Cyborg's own mouth damns whatever point they are trying to make ... From the given information is OBVIOUS that Ronda has never ducked Cyborg.

However, Cyborg offered a catch weight and when Ronda's team went to accept, Cyborg took back her offer. Cyborg's contract was picked up by the UFC (where Ronda fights), but she chose to ask for a release so she could go fight somewhere where there would be a 0% chance of fighting Ronda. She even refused the UFC's offer to pay Dolce to help her, making it even more obvious that she had no intention of even trying to be in Ronda's weight class, where the fight could actually happen. Her goal has been to lift weights and make sure she could always say she is too big to go to 135.

It is obvious from the photo that even at 140 she is carrying a ton of muscle mass, she could easily cut 5 lbs and make it happen, but she just doesn't want to.

This is so much BS I don't even know where to start:

1st Its not Obvious especially considering she went from 145 to 135 ( NOT saying she was clearly ducking but ... )

2nd Cyborg was not asked to fight in the UFC she was asked to fight for Invicta under a UFC contract ( which all other things being equal would not have allowed her to do kickboxing matches for example )

3rd The UFCs offer for Dolce to help her is a double edged blade. Dolce can clearly make fighters make weight he also clearly has no interest in them being in top shape or having a long career.

4th It would be much easier for Ronda ( who cuts quite a bit to reach the 135 ) to fight at 145 then it would be for Cyborg to fight at 135.

Summary: I do not have a real interest in WMMA as it is. I have no dog in this. Both ladies have their accomplishments. I do see Rondas ( and the UFCs point ) of not taking a fight with a tough but largely unknown challenger especially at that challengers weight class. I do see Cyborgs point of not wanting to hurt herself and her career with that kind of cut.

But:
Cyborg got caught once to make a roid monkey out of her seems a bit meh ( there are numerous UFC fighters who have been caught more then once ).
Cyborg is NOT a 135lbs fighter she cuts a lot to get to 145 to insinuate she is ducking Ronda for not wanting to cut down to an unfavourable weight class is - well you could ask why Cain doesn't cut to fight JBJ with the same right.

 

[The5thgod]

Are you telling me the Cyborg in the photo where she weighs 140 wouldn't still be the most ripped and physical woman at 135, even with five pounds less muscle mass? Cyborg could make the weight easily, she just refuses to quit lifting weights and training for size.

I'm saying whether she can or she can't who gaf?? It's still gonna be questioned if she's healthy there or not. Rousey can without a doubt easily fight at 145. There's the fight. Give it to us. No excuses before or after.

 

[FountOfWisdom]

Are you telling me the Cyborg in the photo where she weighs 140 wouldn't still be the most ripped and physical woman at 135, even with five pounds less muscle mass? Cyborg could make the weight easily, she just refuses to quit lifting weights and training for size.

This is pure speculation my misguided friend. And hence why this thread for all its pictures and links is a barely concealed hate thread.

Of course would she stop strength training and with the right diet she could go well below 145 - but the same could be said about any fighter. I do think it ridiculous to call out a fighter for ducking if he refuses to change weight class especially if it would mean to go to a lower weight class.

 

[clayj]

This is so much BS I don't even know where to start:

1st Its not Obvious especially considering she went from 145 to 135 ( NOT saying she was clearly ducking but ... )

2nd Cyborg was not asked to fight in the UFC she was asked to fight for Invicta under a UFC contract ( which all other things being equal would not have allowed her to do kickboxing matches for example )

4th It would be much easier for Ronda ( who cuts quite a bit to reach the 135 ) to fight at 145 then it would be for Cyborg to fight at 135.

Why you are wrong about all of these points is clearly explained in all of the links which are provided in the OP, which you obviously didn't read.

 

[suffersystem]

You are wrong. I hope that stings a little after all the work you put in to try to obfuscate the truth.

Honda fought at 145 until she realized she would face Cyborg. Then she randomly dropped to 135 and told Cyborg if she wanted to fight it would be at 135.

That is straight documented facts. You can assign any reasons you want to the facts, but you can't change the facts.

Strange, since facts in evidence say that they were supposed to fight at had her suspension been reduced. That is also while Ronda was 135 champ. So facts are, had Cyborg's suspension been reduced they would have indeed fought, so Ronda did not run and duck to 135 as you suggest. That is actual FACT and from Cyborg herself and her law team.

http://www.mmamania.com/2012/4/9/29...on-upheld-strikeforce-ronda-rousey-female-mma

 

[FountOfWisdom]

Honda fought at 145 until she realized she would face Cyborg. Then she randomly dropped to 135 and told Cyborg if she wanted to fight it would be at 135.

That is straight documented facts. You can assign any reasons you want to the facts, but you can't change the facts.

This is somewhat true.
As far as I remember the idea ( of SF ) was to build Ronda up and have her face Cyborg at 145 at a later point - after she had made a name for herself ( Ronda was virtually unknown at that point ).

 

[clayj]

Of course would she stop strength training and with the right diet she could go well below 145 -

and Cyborg won't do it, even though she has been told for three years that all she has to do is drop a bit of weight and the fight is hers. Therefore, it is clearly Cyborg who doesn't want the fight and she is choosing weight lifting over the huge payday and the biggest fight of her career. You are so close to actually understanding how it is Cyborg who is keeping this from happening ....

 

[FountOfWisdom]

Why you are wrong about all of these points is clearly explained in all of the links which are provided in the OP, which you obviously didn't read.

No. I read them and they say jack shit about it being easier to cut to 135 then to bulk to 145. For example. Your hyperbole and hatred is astonishing get some fresh air and then come back to talk to me otherwise you are dismissed.

 

[The5thgod]

and Cyborg won't do it, even though she has been told for three years that all she has to do is drop a bit of weight and the fight is hers. Therefore, it is clearly Cyborg who doesn't want the fight and she is choosing weight lifting over the huge payday and the biggest fight of her career. You are so close to actually understanding how it is Cyborg who is keeping this from happening ....

Yes so you're saying she has to weaken herself to get the fight. Lol

 

[FountOfWisdom]

and Cyborg won't do it, even though she has been told for three years that all she has to do is drop a bit of weight and the fight is hers. Therefore, it is clearly Cyborg who doesn't want the fight and she is choosing weight lifting over the huge payday and the biggest fight of her career. You are so close to actually understanding how it is Cyborg who is keeping this from happening ....

Learn to use non selective quoting b4 you deign to speak to me again.

 

[clayj]

No. I read them and they say jack shit about it being easier to cut to 135 then to bulk to 145. For example. Your hyperbole and hatred is astonishing get some fresh air and then come back to talk to me otherwise you are dismissed.

Cyborg spends a tremendous amount of effort to STAY BIG with all of her weight training and training for size. It would be extremely easy for her to reduce her ideal fighting weight. Yet she won't do it!

 

[clayj]

Yes so you're saying she has to weaken herself to get the fight. Lol

I know she is used to a 20+ lb weight advantage when she goes in the cage, and even at 135 she will still have probably 10+ lbs on Ronda. Is that not enough an advantage for Cyborg? Are you saying she is too scared to fight with only a 10 lb advantage?

 

[FountOfWisdom]

Cyborg spends a tremendous amount of effort to STAY BIG with all of her weight training and training for size. It would be extremely easy for her to reduce her ideal fighting weight. Yet she won't do it!

A fighter does strength training - how shocking. Btw Rondas ideal fighting weight is not 135.

She fought at 155lbs at the Olympics for fucks sake. Yet somewhere in your twisted parody of a brain Cyborg ( who never fought lower then 145 ) somehow is further away from her ideal fighting weight and should cut/diet to get at it then RR who used to fight at 155 is at 135.

 

[FountOfWisdom]

I know she is used to a 20+ lb weight advantage when she goes in the cage, and even at 135 she will still have probably 10+ lbs on Ronda. Is that not enough an advantage for Cyborg? Are you saying she is too scared to fight with only a 10 lb advantage?

Ronda who cuts more to get to 135 then most male bantams and who used to fight at 155 will be 10 lbs smaller then Cyborg?

So much for pulling 'Facts' straight out of your ass.

TS congratz you are a grade a moron.

 

[Felis]

Oh god, not this again

You obviously didn't read any of the links, but that is exactly what I expected.

Have you read your links (by now)?

Cyborg then says she will fight Ronda at a catchweight of 40 (Aug 13, 2012)
http://www.mmamania.com/2012/8/13/3240734/cris-cyborg-ronda-rousey-fight-catchweight

To which Ronda's manager agrees with VADA drug and hair folicle testing (Aug 19)
http://www.mmamania.com/2012/8/20/3256102/ronda-rousey-drug-testing-cyborg-steroids-strikeforce-mma

No, he didn't.
Nowhere in that video/Helwani-Interview your link links to did Harvey agree to a 140 CW.

 

[A_bomb47]

Yes so you're saying she has to weaken herself to get the fight. Lol

She doesn't have to anything.
She can go fight in the UFC at 135 for the biggest payday and audience available in mma or stay at 145 and fight for $1000 in Invicta in front of 100 people.

She and her shertard fans should stop pretending she has anything to demand.
Nobody outside the hardcore mma fanbase gives a fuck about her and nobody will give a shit if Rousey never fights her.