Theory Prime vs Prime Iron Mike v Rocky Marciano

[MadSquabbles500]

Who wins this in their prime? Iron Mike Tyson or Rocky Marciano. I like this matchup of styles. Peek-a-boo vs whatever you call Rocky's style (gazelle punch). They are both short for heavyweights. Both like to throw for power. I hope they arent too far apart in weight or else this wont make sense. How heavy was Rocky? Or can Rocky's technique trump any weight advantage Tyson has.

 

[Azam]

Tyson.

Marciano fighting weight was 185lbs.

Tyson fought at about 220lbs.

That's a hell of a difference.

Marciano was a savage but I think during his era the division was a bit weak - not really his fault - and a bit similar to Tyson before he ran into Holyfield.

Not to discredit him - Marciano beat the best of his time - it's just that there have been other eras with a more stacked or competitive division - not that it's his fault.

The only names of legit competition I can think of are - Jersey Joe Walcott (but he was passed it), Ezzard Charles (who he beat fair & square), Lee Savold, Joe Louis (a way way passed his prime louis) and Archie Moore.

In the first Walcott fight - he was losing before the knockout but then again Walcott is a legend in my eyes.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Obviously no way to know for sure, but I'd bet on Mike Tyson. Rocky Marciano gets romanticised a lot, but he only really beat up old men. He fought in a time where the heavyweight division wasn't great. I think Tyson says it the best, athletes only get better as time goes on, and I think comparing a near modern athlete to someone from that long ago is a little unfair - especially when Rocky didn't beat a who's who like Ali or Frazier.

 

[j123]

Sherdog has ruined me, when I hear prime vs prime, first thing that comes to mind are @pcptornado and @GearSolidMetal threads

 

[SaiWa]

Extremely biased towards Iron Mike. Prime Mike Tyson can take on anyone and win. The Tyson that faced off against Holyfield was past his prime IMO.

The hungry Prime Mike Tyson was a pure grade A+++ savage. People were expecting knockouts in the early rounds for championship fights! That's as beastly as you can get...

 

[Griff319]

Gotta agree not discrediting Rock he beat whoever was put in front of him but Fighting a prime Tyson is like standing in a subway tunnel trying to stop a train

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I should say, I don't think Prime Tyson was unbeatable, there are fantasy match ups like him vs Foreman, vs Ali etc. where I think he'd lose... but I'm not sure how Rocky wins it. Tyson didn't like guys with one punch power - but as Azam mentioned, Marciano was 40 pounds lighter

 

[Azam]

Extremely biased towards Iron Mike. Prime Mike Tyson can take on anyone and win. The Tyson that faced off against Holyfield was past his prime IMO.

The hungry Prime Mike Tyson was a pure grade A+++ savage. People were expecting knockouts in the early rounds for championship fights! That's as beastly as you can get...

I don't think he can take anyone on and win. I think George Foreman would have mauled Tyson badly. Foreman imho was the heaviest hitter in the heavyweight division, had one of the best chins I've seen and was physically very strong. I remember reading somewhere that Tyson avoided Foreman (when he came back) supposedly because Cus D'amato warned him about facing a heavy puncher like that.

Also Tyson was in his prime - he only lost to Buster Douglas before the Holyfield loss. Maybe not as hungry or as dedicated as he once was - but nevertheless in his prime. He lost pretty fair & square both times.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

With a time machine, there would be no way that Marciano wins.

However, I have been trying to study Marciano more. The guy was 5'10 and had a short reach for a guy that was 5'10. What was that guy doing? People say that the competition wasn't that great, but that was boxing in the 50s when boxing was a much bigger sport. I doubt the competition was as bad as some people say. He had excellent punching technique and a knack for power, but, other than that, it was pretty ugly. It goes to show you that power and chin can go pretty far.

 

[Azam]

Obviously no way to know for sure, but I'd bet on Mike Tyson. Rocky Marciano gets romanticised a lot, but he only really beat up old men. He fought in a time where the heavyweight division wasn't great. I think Tyson says it the best, athletes only get better as time goes on, and I think comparing a near modern athlete to someone from that long ago is a little unfair - especially when Rocky didn't beat a who's who like Ali or Frazier.

I definitely think Rocky does get romanticized a lot but I don't think it's fair to say he beat up old men. Sure he did beat up a few past their prime fighters but he pretty much fought everyone that was available as far as I know in his division. That's all you can really ask of him. It's just that there was no-one really besides an old Walcott and E.Charles to really test him.

I think though that a lot of people tend to write off Rocky unfortunately and he gets labelled as a slugger/brawler. When I watch him I feel there is a method to what he does. I think a lot of what he does is applicable to today - sure he might not have the athleticism of today's athletes but you can still learn/apply some of his tactics. I mean something that I really like is how when he goes all in on his hooks, he tucks his chin into the hooking shoulder & also uses the hooking forearm as a guard to block returning shots to his face - a bit reminiscent of Archie Moore's cross armed guard but with only the hooking forearm. You can see him do it multiple times in that highlight and I've seen him do it in some of his fights that are on youtube and I've seen a lot of punches slam into that forearm rather than his face.

Hell I stole his uppercut/hook combination and it actually works for me - almost like a bread/butter combo for me now.

 

[Fluffernutter]

FWIW:

Pro Debuts: Lee Epperson beats Hector Mercedes (point to Marciano)
Last fight before the title shot: Harry Mathews beats Alfonzo Ratliff (point to Marciano)
Title fight: Joe Walcott beats Trevor Berbick (point to Marciano)
Last title fight: Lennox Lewis beats Archie Moore (point to Tyson)
Last fight: McBride (at 271) loses to Moore (188) (point to Marciano)

 

[SaiWa]

I should say, I don't think Prime Tyson was unbeatable, there are fantasy match ups like him vs Foreman, vs Ali etc. where I think he'd lose... but I'm not sure how Rocky wins it. Tyson didn't like guys with one punch power - but as Azam mentioned, Marciano was 40 pounds lighter

no one likes guys with one punch power. I never did say Prime Mike Tyson would definitely win but he has as good of a chance of beating anyone on any given day. The betting line would favor Iron Mike IMO.

I don't think he can take anyone on and win. I think George Foreman would have mauled Tyson badly. Foreman imho was the heaviest hitter in the heavyweight division, had one of the best chins I've seen and was physically very strong. I remember reading somewhere that Tyson avoided Foreman (when he came back) supposedly because Cus D'amato warned him about facing a heavy puncher like that.

Also Tyson was in his prime - he only lost to Buster Douglas before the Holyfield loss. Maybe not as hungry or as dedicated as he once was - but nevertheless in his prime. He lost pretty fair & square both times.

My definition of Prime Mike Tyson is different from yours. IMO Prime Mike Tyson era sadly ended right after the Michael Spinks victory in June '88. Then the royal POS Don King managed to pry Tyson away from Billy Cayton and Kevin Rooney and it was all over... Tyson was still a fuckin' deadly monster but he was no longer prime.

Prime Mike Tyson had excellent defense. His defense had a purpose and it was aggressive in setting up his attacks. Just watch any of his fights prior to '88. You see Mike bobbing and weaving constantly looking for an opening.. hunting. He dodged and weaved punches fluidly and when he responded he slid inside and countered in an instant. It was truly a sight to behold.

The non-prime Mike Tyson? guhh.. ugly. There's little to no defense. I mean keeping your gloves up is defense then Mike had it in spades but that's it. He rarely bobbed and weaved and it was usually when he was in trouble. He was mostly content with muscling his way in with unimaginative shots. Watch the Tyrell Biggs fight and then watch the first Evander Holyfield fight B2B and you will see what I am talking about. Or any fights after he was released from jail.

I blame Don King mostly for ruining Mike Tyson. There are people that truly deserve to go to hell and I know Don King is one of them.

I wouldn't pay $1 to see the Mayweather vs McGregor fight but I would pay $1000 to see Mike Tyson (any age) in the ring against Don King for one round.

 

[freaky]

Tyson. Rocky wouldn't even be able to touch him. Also, after viewing that vid, Rocky is a bit sloppy too. Just throws many power shots. Very sloppy.

Tyson by KO rd.1 even if they're same weight.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

no one likes guys with one punch power. I never did say Prime Mike Tyson would definitely win but he has as good of a chance of beating anyone on any given day. The betting line would favor Iron Mike.

I never said you said anything

 

[MadSquabbles500]

With a time machine, there would be no way that Marciano wins.

However, I have been trying to study Marciano more. The guy was 5'10 and had a short reach for a guy that was 5'10. What was that guy doing? People say that the competition wasn't that great, but that was boxing in the 50s when boxing was a much bigger sport. I doubt the competition was as bad as some people say. He had excellent punching technique and a knack for power, but, other than that, it was pretty ugly. It goes to show you that power and chin can go pretty far.

He did something called the Gazelle Punch, where he leaps forward and punches while feet are in air. Most boxing coaches consider this blasphemy.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

He did something called the Gazelle Punch, where he leaps forward and punches while feet are in air. Most boxing coaches consider this blasphemy.

http://www.modernmartialartist.com/rocky-marcianos-punch/

I like the second version(not really a step 2) of the Gazelle punch. He is just doing a shift before the hook and little bit of a falling step with the hook. The 3rd version I don't know about. Tyson would do things like that also. I am sure that there are boxing coaches that would hate it, but at advanced level, I am sure they know how and when to break some of the rules.

 

[eternaldarkness]

Tyson would be at an advantage because of weight and speed but Marciano was heaps tougher and a lot more tricky with his combos. never really liked the way Tyson fell apart under pressure

 

[eternaldarkness]

tyson as dangerous a he was didn't have many ways of setting his shots up, holyfield and several other fighters exposed this trait. watch tyson's fight vs don halpin if you want to see how easy it was for certain fighters to outbox him, people where also able to outbox marciano but he didn't get frustrated in the same manner, or start throwing a tantrum.

 

[Sapp]

One of the only times I'll ever side with Tyson.

 

[Quiz]

Did Tyson ever fight anyone shorter than him or a fighter who fought out of a crouch like Rocky did?