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Even if that was case, it would be a further argument for it being an entirely different fight. Dork.
Media Prime Muhammad Ali vs. Prime Oleksandr Usyk - Who wins?
- Thread starter Takes Two To Tango
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Same outcome, slightly different variables. Doofus.
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Since you know how fantasy fights would turn out, you should have no problem telling us how the next ten major boxing fights will turn out.
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Since nobody knows how they'd turn out, why even throw out a prediction or entertain the idea? That's some impressive logic on a fight forum.
Concession accepted.
Ali > Usyk (by a large margin)
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If Ali vs. Norton had never happened, I know what you'd say with your dork logic.
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Alternative realities....take a nap kid.
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Vitali beats him, too much length.
With Wladimir it's kinda weird with all the clinching and leaning he was allowed to do as a champion in Germany. When he came to London as a challenger for Joshua, I knew this would be an issue. And it didn't take long for Joshua to unload on him. Bernard Hopkins once called Wladimir a C- fighter.
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You can’t teach 6 foot 6, as they say.
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Most people would favor him to win. Usyk himself respects Wladimir's boxing abilities more than Vitali's. On our forum Vitali's style gets more appreciation. I could see why, we like more "natural" fighters which Vitali was a born one, while Usyk being himself a prime example likes the hard workers who learn every trick FROM THE BOOK. I have no idea if Vitali would have anything for Usyk, but Prime Wladimir has insane power on his right hand and a solid enough jab to cause some trouble for Usyk in the first half of the fight. Actually I have no doubt Wlad would win something like 5 out of the first 6 rounds and than Usyk would start to take over once he finds the target. Unlike Joshua, Wlad had excellent distance managment, he learnt actual boxing movement and always was the ring general. He was controlling distance even in the recent fights he lost. But Usyk has shown he can solve that puzzle once the fight goes into deep waters so I would expect him to dominate the second half of the (fantasy) fight and especially the later rounds.
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nah, liston was very fast for his size, what undid him with his footwork is he didn't have a clue about cutting off the ring, not a single clue. Some guys just have so much ability that they skip things in the time they should be developing, usually in search of the money. No one would think he'd run into a heavyweight Willie Pep and had no reason to think that.
Liston was also cheated out of his prime and just had about the worst luck of any heavyweight ever. Ducked by patterson for years while he fought all the guys Patterson avoided and then running into Ali. Then, in the rematch, Ali gets a hernia after Liston whips himself into the best condition of his life, he couldn't do it for the reset time apparently and just didn't even seem to want to be there. Some people still think Liston at his best might have beaten ali, it's the reason people still think those two fights were fishy.
Larry Merchant is not one of the faithful, he once said, "if joe frazier won the title and lost in his second defense, he would have been forgotten about". True but Joe had his peak aligned with winning the title, Sonny didn't. Some people still think he belongs on a very short list of atg's.
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hands were always surprisingly fast to me. Check out the jab he throws at young clay when he's back into the ropes in the third round of fight one. He just couldn't hit ali and as his men said later, he found out Ali had more power than he was told about, in the dressing room he said, he wondered aloud where the guy he was who couldn't punch, "that guy could punch". Liston was on his way to a long beating and he knew it so he quit like Duran and many other fighters in that situation.
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Two completely different fighters. Liston couldn't cut the ring. He had to chase. Worse is that he had an opponent in front of him that was constantly leaning back, with his hands down at his waist, and his chin up in the air. Why reach for the head if you can't hit it? Maybe target the body. That's all he had to do to slow Ali's legs down and potentially even hurt a guy that was frequently off balance and putting himself in otherwise terrible positions. Ali wasn't even in his boxing stance when he was dancing around on the outside. He had no base underneath him.
Any well-schooled boxer is going to take advantage of these glaring fundamental deficiencies and some of Ali's opponents already had by then. How quickly you forget that Cooper floored him just 8 months prior to Liston 1. Only a few months before that was another controversial fight that Ali had against Doug Jones.
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A lot of people would expect me to say Ali but Ali was a bit of a head hunter. Body work is the key to beating Usyk, IMO.
I do think Usyk would have issue getting around Ali's jab but I'm not sold that Ali would dominate that fight.
I do think Usyk would have issue getting around Ali's jab but I'm not sold that Ali would dominate that fight.
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The jab tends to be less of a factor in orthodox vs southpaw match-ups. Watch both of Ali's pro fights against Mildenberger & Dunn. He relied mostly on straight right hand counters after circling to the inside (the opposite of what an orthodox is taught to do against a southpaw conventionally). He never actively established his jab against either of them. It may've been deliberate so that he could walk them into straight rights but it allowed them to close the distance and land their own straight lefts & hooks.
Prime Usyk had easily finished both Patterson and Liston in distance. Easy peasy.
So it is damn difficult to tell.
Usyk used mobile dynamic guard, had considerably better footwork than anyone Ali had to fight with... also he is southpaw with world top elite level jab and very good gas tank.
While Patterson had fast hands and was highly skilled, Usyk had better footwork and advantage in reach and weight too.... so pretty capable to keep Patterson in comfortable for him distance ....
Liston ofc was very powerful but very predictable and ...let's be fair, leg lazy....
Ali from 70 ies .... dunno.
Usyk if had made some mistakes might had big problems with Norton and Frazier. If..
IMHO even more than vs Ali from 70 ies.
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Prime Ali.
Usyk is grossly overrated due to the era he's in.
He couldn't even dominate Derek fkn Chisora. Meanwhile Ali let a prime Foreman punch himself out and did a fkn bait n switch.
Usyk is grossly overrated due to the era he's in.
He couldn't even dominate Derek fkn Chisora. Meanwhile Ali let a prime Foreman punch himself out and did a fkn bait n switch.
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you just have to give it time and let the chips fall, 15 years ago, the KK bros were the greatest, 10 years ago, Fury was, then wilder, now usyk.
All you gotta do is win a big fight and people are asking if so and so can beat hagler and monzon and duran after the dust settles that talk has died down for the guys we've had for the last few years.
