pride finals 2006 dude - mirko's win over josh

Discussion in 'Worldwide MMA Discussion' started by norsuu, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. CinemaKingdom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    Messages:
    3,852
    Likes Received:
    627
    I don't disagree. I was there for it, I followed Pride during that time and before. The OWGP was really exciting and I want more of them. Just saying it wasn't as great in comparison (relative competition) as other GPs like the 2004 HW GP or the 2005 LHW GP. That isn't Cro Cop's fault, being a bigger guy in the OWGP is just an advantage. In an OWGP it's crazy possibilities that make it exciting, even though a HW will most likely win.
     
  2. DayV Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    132
    Also, by winning Grand Prix, Cro Cop became champion over likes of Nogueira, Overeem, Werdum, Hunt, Alex Emelianenko... They all had the same opportunity to win, and they all lost to someone Cro Cop has beaten. They are all incorporated into significance of winning that tournament. By winning Grand Prix Cro Cop bested them all.

    That's the way it is, France became world champion in football without beating directly Germany, Brazil, Spain, Italy or Portugal. But nobody should put that in question.

    Cro Cop was really unlucky that the circumstances took away his chance to rematch Fedor in 2006/2007.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
    SouvlakiSpaceStation likes this.
  3. SouvlakiSpaceStation Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    274
    Respect for being an OG, but... Cro Cop was always not the largest HW. If you watch his fights in K1, and a lot of his fights in general, you could normally see that he was at a size disadvantage. Nowadays, fighters are just generally bigger, but LHWs and hell, even some MWs (because of weight cutting) might cut down to 205 or 185, but come fight time, they probably weigh around what Cro Cop weighed for most of his fights, maybe a little less, but some prob weigh around the same or more.

    But more importantly, how could you discredit someone for winning an OWGP as a HW when the field is mostly HWs? That doesn't make sense. If it was an open-weight tourney with a bunch of middleweights, light heavyweights, hell, some welterweights too and heavyweights, then sure, that would be valid to say, a HW obv has the advantage in an open-weight tourney that's truly a mixed bag of weight classes... but let's take a look at the field, shall we?

    Josh Barnett - HW
    Aleks Emelianenko - HW
    Mark Hunt - HW
    TK - HW
    Fabricio Werdum - HW
    Alistair Overeem - HW, although at that time, he was a LHW... it was before he bulked up and became the Overeem we know today, but still, was bigger than Cro Cop even back then.
    Big Nog - HW
    Zuluzinho - HW

    Do I even need to go on? The only non-HWs were Minowa, who was used to fighting bigger guys and perfect for any open-weight tournament, and Nishijima, who was a boxer who boxed at cruiserweight... which would be around LHW for MMA standards. Wanderlei entered the tourney when Fedor dropped out, which made it a total of 3 'questionable' non-HW fighters in the tourney. He bulked up though and ended up weighing more than Cro Cop for their fight. He weighed 20lbs less than Fujita (another HW) in their fight in the bracket, still won.

    Murilo Ninja was a MW/LHW and he was in the bracket for Fedor's 2004 Grand Prix win. Also had guys like Giant Silva and Sentoryu Miller, who straight up were horrible fighters. And worst of all, he was supposed to fight Big Nog in the semi-finals of the tourney. The way the bracket was set up had Fedor vs. Big Nog and Sergei Kharitonov vs. Naoya Ogawa as the semi-final fights. But during the final four, they switched the bracket up. Fedor never finished Big Nog, so he would have been at a big disadvantage if he had to fight Sergei in the finals, who likely would have made easy work of Ogawa. Is that not a huge break that he got? Easy to say oh Fedor's amazing, doesn't really matter who was in front of him, he would have won anyway... but he didn't have to beat 2 fighters in one night either because of the NC in the finals/fight having to be rescheduled. On top of that, the bracket got switched, which gave him a much easier fight than he would (and should) have had. I wouldn't even bring it up if Ogawa was just in his bracket to begin with because he'd just be fighting who was in front of him, but that wasn't the case.

    So yeah, the point is you could nitpick every little thing about the other Grand Prixs as well, but to make the thing you mention be that he won an OWGP as a HW when the field was pretty much all HWs..... come on.

    Talk about how he had an easier bracket in comparison to Barnett. That would be more valid, and that would be the nitpicky thing I'd say about his Grand Prix win, but PRIDE was trying to set up a Fedor/Cro Cop rematch and put them on the same side of the bracket. Fedor dropped out of the tourney. Again, not Cro Cop's fault. I'll admit that Barnett's path was a lot tougher, no one can really dispute that. But it is what it is, it played out how it played out, with Fedor dropping out and whatnot. I'm just saying though. Hispect the legend.
     
    DayV likes this.
  4. CinemaKingdom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    Messages:
    3,852
    Likes Received:
    627
    Dude, we pretty much agree on everything but you are starting to come off overly sensitive. All I said was "I loved the OWGP but he was a bit overrated for it". I didn't say totally overrated or he sucked, I said a BIT...a tiny amount. Chill out.
     
  5. SouvlakiSpaceStation Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    274
    Well, clearly we don't... lol. You said his OWGP win wasn't as great of an accomplishment as other Grand Prixs because "being a bigger guy in the OWGP is just an advantage" ... which as a statement alone is true, but that's completely false in this context, for reasons I explained in my last post. That's all, I just type a lot of words because I'm bored and not working rn cuz of COVID lmao, I'm not angry or upset or anything.
     
    Richard Fannin likes this.
  6. CinemaKingdom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    Messages:
    3,852
    Likes Received:
    627
    lol, I get it. Plus you have the anti-Pride trolls on here all the time.
     
  7. immyaxl White Belt

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    68
    He tapped because he couldn't see and he didn't want his head punted into the upper deck. Those were his words
     
    SouvlakiSpaceStation likes this.
  8. SouvlakiSpaceStation Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    274
    True. I'm mostly going based on memory alone, but that is what he said, yes.
     
    immyaxl likes this.
  9. pick999 Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    16,138
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Gonzaga was legit
     
  10. TRYHARD 2001 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    11,980
    Likes Received:
    519
    Location:
    Victoria, BC

    Yeah, at that point in time he was a beast, but he was always a glass cannon. If you managed to survive the initial onslaught he'd fold later on. Cro Cop never managed to do the first part unfortunately.
     
  11. Richard Fannin Hammer House Time

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,278
    Likes Received:
    337
    Location:
    Coleman's porch
    Mirko was punching him, it was a short right hammer fist that damaged Barnett's eye (which was already hurt from strikes at that point), not a finger or anything illegal.Watch the different angles during the replays.

    The strike that looks like it could possibly be an eye-poke from the first angle was definitely not illegal from the other cameras, it didn't even go near Josh's eye and was a clost fist.
    Watch all the angles in slow-mo, it should be clearer.

    Crocop also had a broken foot (from the Wanderlei LHK) for the Barnett fight, even if Josh did get the harder road to the finale.
     
    norsuu and DayV like this.
  12. HHJ Fedor and Khabib Supremacist

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Messages:
    92,372
    Likes Received:
    16,398
    Location:
    Ultima Thule
    He was extremely strong
     
    Kforcer likes this.
  13. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,874
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    Location:
    East Lansing, Michigan
    Absolutely. Crazy strong, like a robot.
     
  14. ThunderL1ps Red Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    8,687
    Likes Received:
    265
    What a surprise that Mirko was able to inflict damage on a fighter that had been through a war in a previous fight, while Filipovic basically had a cake walk.
     
  15. Escabar Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,948
    Likes Received:
    63
    Location:
    London
    At the time nobody thought Wand was gonna be an easy fight Sherdog even predicted he'd win the whole tournament. Every fan was happy with the way it was matched Barnett vs Nog was a grappling fans wet dream and Wand vs Cro Cop was one of the most heated rivalries in Pride.
     
    Richard Fannin and DayV like this.
  16. Richard Fannin Hammer House Time

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,278
    Likes Received:
    337
    Location:
    Coleman's porch
    A cake walk in which he broke his left foot, you mean?
    Last time Mirko fought with a broken foot was against Mark Hunt (in which he had to wear wrestling shoes for the first and last time of his career), and we saw the difference in his kicks power between that PRIDE fight and their first meeting in K1.

    Barnett had a tougher road to the finale, but let's not exaggerate either. Wanderlei Silva was an elite fighter, and that Crocop rematch was an anticipated one...
    Even if I must admit that I'm still annoyed that we didn't get Wand vs Barnett instead of the Crocop rematch; Rodrigo vs Mirko was a more interesting rematch IMHO, and The Axe Murderer vs the Babyfaced Assassin was one of those unpredictable match-ups that I craved for. <{UberTS}>
     
    DayV likes this.
  17. ThunderL1ps Red Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    8,687
    Likes Received:
    265
    Breaking his foot off of the Ax Murder's dome at the end of the fight? Was that the loud crack? It was still an easy fight for Mirko, either way. Silva was a blown-up heavyweight, who has never competed at that weight class before the tournament or since. Silva is not a heavyweight fighter. Cro Cop was physically bigger than their first bout to his benefit. The weight gain wasn't going to help Silva, who has fought at LHW and MW through his career.

    Their first bout, Filipovic was a novice at grappling compared to Silva, who used his BJJ to his advantage to get that draw. But since then? Cro Cop's takedown defense was drilled over and over. When Mark Coleman can't take you down, what is SIlva gonna do? Sure wasnt' going to strike with a K-1 level fighter with his brawling style. Filipovic took to MMA like a fish to water in very short order. Once Cro Cop's grappling and MMA IQ increased, the overmatched Silva was basically fighting unarmed against in their rematch.

    With the Hunt PRIDE fight, for someone with a broken foot, Filipovic sure did run a lot. All of these fighters carry injuries. Hunt probably had his own but didn't share them. Cro Cop was likely looking for an edge more than anything with the shoes and it didn't pay off.

    With enough money on the line, Barnett/Wanderlei could still happen. But back in the day? I don't see how Silva could have stopped Barnett from submitting him. If the fight match ups were swapped for that OWGP final four, Barnet looked top notch against Nogueira. I know "styles make fights" but I don't know what Silva could have gone outside of a Hail Mary punch on Barnett.
     
  18. Bluesbreaker Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    5,574
    Likes Received:
    140
    Mirko really shit the bed in that fight. Unfortunately now, it seems to be what newer fans know him for.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.