Positioning and what it means to you - Pt. 1:

Awesome!

Sinister, I will have to say where and how do you know as much as you do? LOL broad question but seriously, you know your craft and its fascinating. Being in boxing gyms over the years, trainers won't simply just tell you stuff like this you have to find out on your own. just wondering how YOU actually got so knowledged. Very interesting

I second that.

Sin, I watched round 1-4 of the fight and noticed the stepping and subtle turning that spinks did, but it doesn't look different than any other fight where a fighter is walking in both directions persay.........am I missing something?
 
Sinister, I will have to say where and how do you know as much as you do? LOL broad question but seriously, you know your craft and its fascinating. Being in boxing gyms over the years, trainers won't simply just tell you stuff like this you have to find out on your own. just wondering how YOU actually got so knowledged. Very interesting

Oi. This will really piss off the trolls who hate me. Jaja!

I guess I have an engineering mind. I always look at everything as a problem that MUST have a solution. That's how I approach learning anything I'm interested in. Some things I've always wanted to learn, but were never around places I could for free-ish. Like cars, you have no idea how much I'd LOVE to be able to work on my own car. Take it apart and re-build it. But I've never been around a guy who actually knows how, has the time, and I was never in a position to do it myself. The result? I don't know a lot about engines, only the accumulation of shitty cars I've ever had. Which can kind of sound like I know a lot. But I'd never try to FIX one. I know a good amount of biochemistry now, because I felt I had to learn it. I was plagued with fatness as a kid. Often "fit but fat"...I could play Sports, but was always chubby. In learning how not to be, now I can speak to biochemists in their own lingo.

When I moved here to box, former Bantamweight Champion Richie Sandoval was my first trainer. He DID notice my ability to learn and adjust. Got my ass kicked a couple of times but the guys who did it always had MUCH more difficulty repeating the act. But he was/is a bit crazy, so I moved to Mike. Mike had a lot of knowledge, but he was an athlete, not a teacher. And Futch passed away before he took to training people full time. I quickly realized that only by asking him questions could you get all the really GOOD info. Asking him stuff Georgie used to say, stuff Steward said, stuff Futch said. He even showed me some drills he never uses himself, saying Eddie used to do them. The thing about athletes is they almost NEVER teach people the way they were taught. They teach people what they feel they know. So they all have this streamlined secret formula, but I suspect this is why most of them churn out fighters who fight exactly like they did. Merqui Sosa has two ways he trains people, to be a bruiser, or to be a backwards moving boxers. Those two ways are in him. When he shadowboxes he's a backwards moving boxer, when he fights, he's a bruiser.

Then when I came to Tocco's, and after realizing my own career wouldn't go much further (around the same time I got ASKED to train a couple of guys who couldn't come to the Gym in the afternoon, they asked to come in the morning when I'm here myself working out), I spent a couple of years just assisting the trainers. I sort of became a culmination of their philosophies. Then Dadi came, and everything he and I forged kind of gave me my own identity. That's when I went out onto my own. It all really started with Daijon and Bleu. Both won their first bouts. Bleu beat a guy trained by a trainer who hates me (but smiles in my face) and constantly tells people I don't know shit. But this is because one of his fighters left him and he thinks I put him up to it, which I didn't. Daijon beat a guy trained by Jeff Mayweather. Ever since that happened, it kind of settled the issue and now I function within the World of "Vegas Boxing trainers." But it took a while.

If you go back to the "Training of a Viking" thread, you can see the formation of it all, because both Merqui and I were working with Kolli. So I was really just beginning there.
 
Interesting stuff. You should write a book if/when you make it big. Im sure you got a lot of stories.
 
Because the upper body will have a subtle tilt that your eyes may not detect accurately.

Do you mean a slight angle to the right ? Does it create some kind of visual effect that makes you look further away ?
 
Do you mean a slight angle to the right ? Does it create some kind of visual effect that makes you look further away ?

I believe it's the opposite, they think you're closer than you are.

I stand like this and no one ever hits me with the first jab they throw because they always throw it from too far away. I usually don't even have to move.
 
I believe it's the opposite, they think you're closer than you are.

I stand like this and no one ever hits me with the first jab they throw because they always throw it from too far away. I usually don't even have to move.

I usually look people in the chest, but my wariness is of their shot or low kick rather than hands which come in second. My peripheral vision is what picks up their feet and gives me my range.

I've never empathized with the idea that you need a range finder. I don't remember ever thinking I needed one and I don't remember ever being confused on where people were. I'd say it is a talent I have naturally.

That said, when people stand the way you are talking, I find it especially aggravating because I feel like I have to move further to land a shot while getting past the lead kick, giving them more time to level change if they want.

With most people I spar, I like to enter by jab feinting and kicking off the reaction as my bread and butter. When people use your stance, sometimes I feel like that is a bad bet and I have to figure out how to catch them on a step or draw out a strike to enter off of - effectively, I'd say the stance is worth about 4 inches of reach.
 
I usually look people in the chest, but my wariness is of their shot or low kick rather than hands which come in second. My peripheral vision is what picks up their feet and gives me my range.

I've never empathized with the idea that you need a range finder. I don't remember ever thinking I needed one and I don't remember ever being confused on where people were. I'd say it is a talent I have naturally.

That said, when people stand the way you are talking, I find it especially aggravating because I feel like I have to move further to land a shot while getting past the lead kick, giving them more time to level change if they want.

With most people I spar, I like to enter by jab feinting and kicking off the reaction as my bread and butter. When people use your stance, sometimes I feel like that is a bad bet and I have to figure out how to catch them on a step or draw out a strike to enter off of - effectively, I'd say the stance is worth about 4 inches of reach.

I'm surprised you don't believe in finding/measuring range. There are a lot of things people can do to fuck with your perception of depth and range. Have you received much instruction on the topic?
 
I'm surprised you don't believe in finding/measuring range. There are a lot of things people can do to fuck with your perception of depth and range. Have you received much instruction on the topic?

Yeah, I get it. I just don't need it. It is probably easier to measure range in MMA sparring because when you can do both Thai and TKD kicking, boxing and karate punching, and clinch, their is always a strike at the path of least resistance. I just practice ball of foot on the swinging heavy bag and do partner drills. Good shots just slip up into their range.

I understand and appreciate how people need their range finding strikes, and how to throw combos off of what you feel with the first strike. I've never thought of it as feel though. I throw my first shot to lock the opponent into a reaction and then strike off that.

On the other hand, while I think of it as a strength, I've put in an obscene amount of time sparring and I'm not the greatest by a long shot. It is more that people are people and I know what they are going to do from experience, and I match what my eyes see to the strike I need right away. I don't need physical feedback to make the hit.

When it comes to fooling people with the range, my eyes can take in everything. Where their feet are, how long their limbs are, and how far the can step, lunge and bend. All of that is just a set of variables and when your computer gets good enough at tracking all the variables, and your strikes are practiced enough that you know their range and accuracy intuitively, you don't need feeler shots to gain information. It just adds up on its own.

While I do what looks likes feeler shots, it is just to get a reaction so they can't move again during the next hit.
 
Last edited:
^with all that, you think I'd be an unstoppable menace, but people can have other weaknesses. My glass jaw causes me to second guess shots because I'm afraid of the potential counter shot, causing me to miss opportunities. That can embolden people who will take the initiative, and once I take some damage, my counter fighting suffers and I'm forced to plan B shit like clinch fighting which I'm not as good at as sniping. If I fought real fights, I'd get eaten up by hit traders because my fear of the head blow will inhibit my attack.

That said, I can knock the wind out of a lot of athletes out of one eye with a ball of the foot snap kick while they are dancing and throwing jabs. I almost never feel like I'm in a bad matchup at long range. I'll even stand with shots exposed or move slow just to trick people into thinking they can out do me from a distance.
 
Yeah, I was gonna say if you can always tell precisely where someone is in a fight just via depth-perception (or some unknown sense) then you should never actually be touched.
 
Yeah, I was gonna say if you can always tell precisely where someone is in a fight just via depth-perception (or some unknown sense) then you should never actually be touched.

I'm also in a smaller town than you ;) We have a big community for MMA out here but it isn't anything like Vegas.

I've sparred at a big gym in both Vegas and Taipei, and I thought the level was just higher in general. At the Vegas gym in-particular, there was a guy who I think thought my technique was cute and didn't respond to anything. I don't get to spar with UFC fighters all the time though.
 
I'm surprised you don't believe in finding/measuring range. There are a lot of things people can do to fuck with your perception of depth and range. Have you received much instruction on the topic?

I think being a good kicker also lets you shortcut this against people who aren't. I've got a pretty strong TKD background, and while it's actively harmful under sustained fire, I find I can beat full-contact guys that are anywhere near my level to the first touch very easily. Reason being that low-midlevel full contact guys don't generally expect front kicks to come out as quick as they do, or have any stopping power, and frontkicks are hard to avoid with lean/movement. So against a lot of guys I can pretty much be assured I'll get the first touch just due to superior footwork/fast twitchiness even when I'm not doing a good job of finding range. I can make this work against pretty much whoever my size, or tall guys who potshot.

That said, lanky dudes who throw constantly eat my lunch. Probably because I don't ever get my range dialed in.
 
That said, lanky dudes who throw constantly eat my lunch. Probably because I don't ever get my range dialed in.

There is such a thing as a bad match up for a style. I use plan B stuff for two kinds of guys -

Tall(er) lanky combo strikers do two things, if they back up a lot to keep their distance punching range, I can still T-off a kick because they can't come back forward when they are moving back, at least not without running into the kick. If that is the scenario, they will usually go to plan B stuff.

If they stand their ground and move in, I actually get to work my hands. They can be made afraid to back out because they don't want to eat a kick, so you just have to nut up, get a little inside their range and rock out a combo. This is my plan B, but in the MMA world, as long as you are tight with it, most people can't handle it - especially tall people. Edit - if I'm losing here to, then there isn't much left but to clinch.

The hardest dudes for me are stubby power lifters with tight Muay Thai. They are usually experts at handling the long range first shot and once inside, work their combo. My trick with them is to switch to feint kick - kick with fast snaps so that they feel like they have to rush to close the gap. The rush makes sure my height lets me have the dominant grip when we clinch. I fire off a shot or two to upset them and make them question if clinching is the right idea. Once they second guess that, I can get them circling, giving me time to load up on TKD shots that will go unanswered.

Edit - so I know I mixed up words there. Sometimes you want to go to plan B. Sometimes switching to plan B seems like a necessity but it is still the wrong decision and you need to stick to your A - game. Like the stubby power lifter Muay Thai dude circling me. That's basically a breaking of will through pain. If they nut up and continue to pressure me despite what I'm doing to dick with them, they can mess me up. Against the lanky guy who will back up when you pressure - if you are a great kicker but rush to clinch or get hands in, your will was basically broken. You take the path of least resistance when it goes to the wrong place. That's one guy you want to stick to kicking on.
 
Last edited:
I think being a good kicker also lets you shortcut this against people who aren't. I've got a pretty strong TKD background, and while it's actively harmful under sustained fire, I find I can beat full-contact guys that are anywhere near my level to the first touch very easily. Reason being that low-midlevel full contact guys don't generally expect front kicks to come out as quick as they do, or have any stopping power, and frontkicks are hard to avoid with lean/movement. So against a lot of guys I can pretty much be assured I'll get the first touch just due to superior footwork/fast twitchiness even when I'm not doing a good job of finding range. I can make this work against pretty much whoever my size, or tall guys who potshot.

That said, lanky dudes who throw constantly eat my lunch. Probably because I don't ever get my range dialed in.

I do think it takes a little more precision to find range for your hands than your kicks. You've got a much larger margin for error with your legs. Personally, I would consider a front kick a strike that helps you find range though.
 
There is such a thing as a bad match up for a style. I use plan B stuff for two kinds of guys -

Tall(er) lanky combo strikers do two things, if they back up a lot to keep their distance punching range, I can still T-off a kick because they can't come back forward when they are moving back, at least not without running into the kick. If that is the scenario, they will usually go to plan B stuff.

If they stand their ground and move in, I actually get to work my hands. They can be made afraid to back out because they don't want to eat a kick, so you just have to nut up, get a little inside their range and rock out a combo. This is my plan B, but in the MMA world, as long as you are tight with it, most people can't handle it - especially tall people. Edit - if I'm losing here to, then there isn't much left but to clinch.

The hardest dudes for me are stubby power lifters with tight Muay Thai. They are usually experts at handling the long range first shot and once inside, work their combo. My trick with them is to switch to feint kick - kick with fast snaps so that they feel like they have to rush to close the gap. The rush makes sure my height lets me have the dominant grip when we clinch. I fire off a shot or two to upset them and make them question if clinching is the right idea. Once they second guess that, I can get them circling, giving me time to load up on TKD shots that will go unanswered.

Edit - so I know I mixed up words there. Sometimes you want to go to plan B. Sometimes switching to plan B seems like a necessity but it is still the wrong decision and you need to stick to your A - game. Like the stubby power lifter Muay Thai dude circling me. That's basically a breaking of will through pain. If they nut up and continue to pressure me despite what I'm doing to dick with them, they can mess me up. Against the lanky guy who will back up when you pressure - if you are a great kicker but rush to clinch or get hands in, your will was basically broken. You take the path of least resistance when it goes to the wrong place. That's one guy you want to stick to kicking on.

I think I would hate to spar you, because I get the impression you're a big guy who kicks like a little guy but still with all the power and accuracy of a big guy who's been kicking people who don't wanna be kicked by him forever.
 
I think I would hate to spar you, because I get the impression you're a big guy who kicks like a little guy but still with all the power and accuracy of a big guy who's been kicking people who don't wanna be kicked by him forever.

I do jump rope like a little girl. ;)

People used to actually say that at a TKD place I trained. There were these 2 guys, one was a collegiate football player and the other an amateur hockey player, both in their 20s build like brick shit houses, and they loved TKD tournaments for some reason. This little girl was sparring near us. She was probably like 13 and had a multidegree black belt. She bounces around like a butterfly, spins her hips all the way Thai style for a round house and then jump retreat spins backward into a hook kick. The dude points at her and says, "the goal here is to be as big as we all are but move around about like her."

In any case, I hate sparring boxers :icon_evil a 130 pound girl can give me a headache with a hook though a 12 ounce glove.
 
There is such a thing as a bad match up for a style. I use plan B stuff for two kinds of guys -

Edit - so I know I mixed up words there. Sometimes you want to go to plan B. Sometimes switching to plan B seems like a necessity but it is still the wrong decision and you need to stick to your A - game. Like the stubby power lifter Muay Thai dude circling me. That's basically a breaking of will through pain. If they nut up and continue to pressure me despite what I'm doing to dick with them, they can mess me up. Against the lanky guy who will back up when you pressure - if you are a great kicker but rush to clinch or get hands in, your will was basically broken. You take the path of least resistance when it goes to the wrong place. That's one guy you want to stick to kicking on.

Yeah, I feel a lot of that. I think the difference is probably that I'm generally doing exclusively standup, with weak clinching (e.g. knockdown or k1 ish), so the clinch is less of a threat for me. I also have some Judo experience, so do better there. I can usually spin people shorter than me, drop out and then keep working. I can also generally win at potshotting given someone who's relatively close to my height.

My issue is thinking I'm a great enough kicker to stop people who are enough taller than me that they can throw in combinations at a distance where I can only kick. I'll kick, tag them, but if it doesn't sit them down them I get lit up. I'm 5'7" like 150ish, so meeting guys who are taller ENOUGH and the same weight is unusual, but not unheard of. I really do think at that point I've gotta close it in enough that I can reach em with my hands, or be far enough that they can't reach me with theirs, because going 2 weapons against 4 is dumb as shit.
 
Back
Top