Police officers causing death by chokeholds

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by bunga, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. bunga

    bunga White Belt

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  2. RangerDanger

    RangerDanger White Belt

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    Wow...wait until the media runs with this, it'll be like when John Mccain originally spoke about the UFC.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2010
  3. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    I live in a small town and when I was younger a police officer killed a local guy using a strangle. Stirred up all kinds of shit.

    Why doesn't in happen in gyms? Police suspects can't tap out.
     
  4. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Orange Belt

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    Sounds liek the cops are hanging on a bit too long.
     
  5. teamcarvalho

    teamcarvalho Green Belt

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    If you look at the report most of the people that died were under the influence of drugs. This seems to be one of the main causes. Also some officers are not properly trained in the use of the Carotid Restraint Hold (Mata Leao) and end up placing the forearm on the throat and applying pressure in the wrong area.

    The Carotid Restraint Hold has been used many many times by LEO's including myself and the accidental death rate is very low.

    The reason you don't see it in schools is because people know how to use the technique correctly and most likely no one is on drugs.
     
  6. HomerPlata

    HomerPlata Purple Belt

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    Hit the nail on the head there.
     
  7. Kozbot

    Kozbot Purple Belt

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    They are also probably putting their entire weight and strength into the choke, crushing their trachea and suffocating them.
     
  8. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    In class, or even competition, we aren't pumping the amount of adrenaline that a LEO is pumping as they are trying to apprehend a fighting suspect/arrestee.

    I can totally see someone crushing a trachea by not applying the RNC correctly as a blood strangle.
     
  9. codysweet02

    codysweet02 Brown Belt

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    Also, no offense to the thousands of legitimate good cops out there, but around here it literally only takes a GED and 6 month academy to become an officer. I know 4 or 5 people I went to high school with who are now cops simply because they were working at Burger King, the mill, janitors, etc. and becoming a cop was the easiest way to make good money with no education. They didn't become cops to help people, they only did it for the money and because it was all they were qualified to do. The guys I know who became cops are not "bad" people, but they are not what I would call good people either. They have no business being cops. They are too stupid to have that much power, but they do.

    Anytime you have so many people who are just not very bright doing a job like this they are going to do stupid things. One of the guys I went to HS with who became a copy beat the crap out of one guy with his club when the guy was handcuffed and got suspended. When he came back a guy swallowed a bag of drugs in the back of the cop car and choked to death on it because the cop didn't follow procedure and check if his airways were blocked. Just called an ambulance and the guy died before they got there. Had he simply followed procedure the guy would have lived. Obviously the guy shouldn't have did what he did, but still the cop could have saved his life very easily.

    When you let so many people with no qualifications have jobs with so much power, you get bad results.
    So, thats my rant about that.
     
  10. HardEight

    HardEight Blue Belt

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    Where do you live? I need to move there and become a cop. Because where I live cops make crap wages.

    But you do have a good point. There are some cops who do it just for the power trip. Those types probably account for a good bit of these types of statistics.

    Now as far as the original question goes, this happens in the street because whenever an officer gets in a physical confrontation, it is always a gun fight. I am sure few of us can imagine the type of adrenaline shock they go through when they know every second they are in this fight is a moment the suspect could take their weapon and kill them. So increased survival instincts take over which adds to the occurance of suspect deaths in struggles.

    Also, drugs play a big part. I know a Highway Patrolman, pretty good buddy of mine, who is a BB in Judo, and a brown in BJJ. He knows what he is doing and he often gets called into situations because people know that he knows what to do. One night he got called to apprehend a naked male walking down the interstate talking to god. He fought everyone who cam near him. The officer got him subdued with a choke hold, handcuffed him and let him lay on his stomach until the paramedics arrived. The man was still conscious and struggling. He fought so hard laying on the ground trying to break the cuffs, his heart exploded in his chest.
    That ended up going to court and the officer was cleared of any wrong doing. But I am sure a lot of instances like that end up in these studies.
     
  11. FlyingKnee101

    FlyingKnee101 Banned Banned

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    it happens in Gym's and tournaments all over the world and we done ever hear of anyone getting killed. he must have crushed the trachea. thats why people who dont know how to submit someone the right way should not try it
     
  12. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    well if you read the article, these people were also really fucking high on drugs at the time they were arrested, so that might have something to do with it.
     
  13. fan22

    fan22 Brown Belt

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    This report was from 2003!!!
     
  14. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    So it's the police officer's fault that a suspect he arrested choked himself to death on a bag of drugs? Unreal...
     
  15. teamcarvalho

    teamcarvalho Green Belt

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    So you are saying that these bad cops you know would have been better cops if they had a college degree. Having a degree is not going to weed out bad people.....that is why they are supposed go through a thorough back ground check and psychological test even before going to an academy.

    Being a Cop is not something anybody can do.....it is a stressful job and you see shit that most people could not deal with. Plus you have to deal with idiots that want to fight you because you have to arrest them because they committed a crime and they feel they should not have go to jail for it.

    You don't need a college degree to write police reports or tickets any high school kid can do them. What you do need is common sense and a strong will. This job is not for anyone. I have seen people quit after their second day on the job because they got scared of the shit they had seen. I admit there are people that are in law enforcement that don't belong on the job....I have worked with some myself.

    However I have worked with some good people that do the job very well and most of them don't have a college degree.

    As far as the accidental deaths .....it happens. Shit I know two cops that killed suspects with Tasers. Cops do need more training but Administration rather spend the money on other things. That is why I am in the business of teaching Cops who don't train on a regular basis how to effectively to defend themselves including using the Carotid Restraint technique.
     
  16. RibCrusher**

    RibCrusher** Orange Belt

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    thing is, if you are a cop you can be shot for trying to help complete strangers. or shot for pulling over someone. or shot because some crackhead is trying to steal shit to buy crack.

    it is easy to sit here an bitch, but as soon as you feel in danger calling the cops is the first thing you will do.

    if people with no qualifications can get this job, it means that there is not incentive for people with qualifications to try to become cops.

    i mean, fuck, who wants a job where you are constantly under the threat of getting killed?
     
  17. bunga

    bunga White Belt

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    Yeah, imagine locking the RNC with all the adrenaline in your blood. As the suspects are resisting it must be yanking their spines out of the natural line as well.
    What can I say - it is great that it does not happen in our gym environment and kind of scary to realise what deadly skills we have come to learn :) I am the walking weapon :mad:
     
  18. Il Wop-O

    Il Wop-O Green Belt

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    I'll admit I did not read the article linked by the OP, but we have many LEOs that train at our academy, and a lot of the reports that used to come out on these issues mainly found trouble when the nightstick was used as the choking mechanism. If I recall correctly, the increased leverage and item rigidity (teamed with the fact that they were tracheal chokes) caused most of the damage.

    Plus the drugs, alcohol, and the associated pain tolerance of the perps all often played significant roles.
     
  19. Nick Kilian

    Nick Kilian Amateur Fighter

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    I know a police officer who got taken down by a maniac and in the process the police officer snapped his neck while he caught him in a choke hold. crazy stuff when going 100%
     
  20. Jiu-Jitsu Cop

    Jiu-Jitsu Cop Green Belt

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    Damn I have not been here in over a year and look at the first thread I see. Oh well the facts are most, not all, people who fight with the cops are on drugs. When the carotid hold is applied the added pressure can cause cardiac arrest on a person who is already on a verge of having problems due to the drug use. If people rolling in gyms were high on cocain or other drugs and out of shape you may have more deaths in the gym.

    Also there should be more training for law enforcement when it comes to use of force. just my two cents worth.
     

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