Plant based diets for BJJ athletes?

[EddieLovesYou]

This has been done to death. There's no performance-related health reason to either follow or avoid a vegan diet. If your moral compass leads you do the conclusion that consuming animal products is not a good thing to do then you can safely follow a vegan diet and still perform well.

Changing to a vegan diet will not give you a performance boost other than the indirect benefit of actually paying attention to what you eat (if you weren't before).

 

[suzaku]

Meat is good guys, but we don't need anywhere NEAR the amount that most humans consume, let alone Americans. Nor do we need nearly as much grains as we get. Humans are supposed to get more of their calories off fruit, nuts, vegatation, which means less saturated fat, less cholesterol, and more fiber and nutrients and energy food. We came from apes after all.

Dietary cholesterol has no effect on blood serum cholesterol.

Saturated fats are fine; world leading Lipid Chemist Mary Enig advocates 50% of your dietary fat intake should come from SFA, 40% from MUFA, and 10% from PUFA with 0 Trans. We also did not come from apes, we have a similar ancestor and that is all.

 

[marian]

I have a love/hate relationship with these threads. I've been a vegetarian or vegan for well over half my life and without a doubt it's been the right choice for me but I think that everyone should make the choices that make the most sense to them and work the best for them.

Honestly, in my day to day life, I try not to talk about it and I consider it a huge achievement when people are shocked to learn that I'm a vegetarian/vegan. Especially if I've known them for a while. I hate the vegetarians and vegans who go out of their way to proselytize. Actually I think all proselytizing annoys me, no matter the subject.

Its possible, but it is far more difficult and requires a much higher level of micromanaging your diet. Even then, it is likely the athlete will be deficient in several ways.

Meh, I dunno. Yes but also no. I think everyone should focus more on diversifying their nutrition so I don't necessarily think that it's a problem more common to vegetarians, vegans, or, for that matter, any other group of people who are working within dietary restrictions (e.g. Chrons disease, diabetes, allergies, religious restrictions, &c.).

I myself don't spend much time worrying about it as I tend to eat a pretty varied diet. Although I do eat a ton of brown rice and beans (I eat so much of that stuff that even as a single person I buy that stuff as Costco).
And, w/r/t to balance and variety in a nutritional plan, I really liked this graphic that popped up in my feed a couple months ago:

(For the record, I myself nevereverever cook tofu at home as I'm too lazy to go through the effort of doing so for just myself but I do order it occasionally when I'm out to eat. And I don't remember the last time I ate granola, even though it is delicious.)

Also, I realize that I'm quoting myself from another thread but I'm to lazy to reblahblahblah all my below points:

and oh yea, its a fun game to play to see how long you can have someone know you but never know youre a vegetarian. also the best way ive found to make other people vegetarians is to not really talk about it and just live by example. might also want to think of a good simple answer to the question of why you are a vegetarian, people are dicks and will question everything about why you are doing it like youre the asshole.

I love this game. I love how surprised people look when they find out I'm a vegetarian.

Also, for everyone who says that you need to supplement & take all kinds of crazy protein shakes if you go vegetarian or vegan, in my case nope. I'm a woman who has been training bjj for~2 years and I get complisulted after I roll with dudes "Wow, you're so strong!" Even my coach has told me "You're stronger than sh!te."

I train hard, I can easily do two-a-days, and I recover more quickly than my peers (other women in my age group with similar training backgrounds) who do eat meat.

I eat normal food, I just don't eat meat or eggs or dairy (or much by way of processed food for that matter). Oatmeal, salads, soups, rice, lentils, burritos, pizza, donuts (ok, those are processed), loads of fruits & veggies, etc.

I got my yearly physical last month & here are my blood work numbers:

HDL: 69mg/dL
LDL: 82mg/dL
Glucose random: 78mg/dL
WBC count: 11.2K/uL
RBC count: 5.14M/uL
Hemoglobin: 15.2g/dL
Hematocrit: 44.5%
MCV: 89fL
Platelet count: 293k/uL
Blood pressure: 109/58​

And while it is true one can eat meat and be healthy, I have a hard time seeing how in my case adding meet to my diet would improve my numbers, my health, or my athletic performance.

(The thread I cut this from is here. Also, when I'm not in the middle of a heavy training block, my resting hear rate is normally under 50bpm. And, yes, I am particularly proud of my hematocrit especially because it's only a couple of points off before where the WADA starts giving women athletes the stink eye. Heh.)

TL; DR: Being vegan/vegetarian has been the right choice for me for over half my life but it's my life and my choices. You go live your life & make your choices, son, & do the best you can.

 

[ThinkGreen]

Linthec, you're not worried about all the toxins prevalent in fish and seafood? Not to mention that, the farm raised, they're all fed trash?

Its been awhile since I have looked into it, but the only fish safe to eat daily was Idaho raised trout.

What do you mean about this last part? Why couldn't you eat other fish daily? Or do you mean that's the only "farm raised" fish you can eat daily?

 

[DoctorTaco]

lots of artiCHOKES!

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

What do you mean about this last part? Why couldn't you eat other fish daily? Or do you mean that's the only "farm raised" fish you can eat daily?

The last part. Louisiana catfish is also good, but is hard to find. Most catfish and tilapia is foreign, and pumped full of antibiotics and steroids without any regulation or study. Because of this most of what I am going on is speculation, because there is really no way to prove it.

If you do want fish, I have found that going to Chinese super markets is the best ironically, they have tanks of live fish.

Catfish is also technically the most sustainable meat source, they convert every two pounds of food into one pound of meat.

 

[ThinkGreen]

The last part. Louisiana catfish is also good, but is hard to find. Most catfish and tilapia is foreign, and pumped full of antibiotics and steroids without any regulation or study. Because of this most of what I am going on is speculation, because there is really no way to prove it.

If you do want fish, I have found that going to Chinese super markets is the best ironically, they have tanks of live fish.

Catfish is also technically the most sustainable meat source, they convert every two pounds of food into one pound of meat.

Ah I see. I didn't even realize what farm raised fish meant until a few weeks ago... been reading a shit load of tnation, which has a lot of info about diet. Problem is wild fish is very pricey.

 

[DPS831]

I have a love/hate relationship with these threads. I've been a vegetarian or vegan for well over half my life and without a doubt it's been the right choice for me but I think that everyone should make the choices that make the most sense to them and work the best for them.

I understand the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" argument; you've had a lot of success with your current diet, and it works for you. That doesn't make it optimal.

without a doubt it's been the right choice for me

How do you know for sure? Have you tried adding quality meats to your current diet & found that it negatively affected your performance? Basically your argument for why you eat vegan/vegetarian is: 1.) I've done it for a long time and it's worked for me. 2.) I recover faster than my peers who eat meat. 3.) I have good blood work numbers.

1 & 3 are great, but don't take into account that a diet with meat in it could actually further increase performance.

2 is subjective and anecdotal. Your increased recovery might be due to a number of factors such as genetic differences, or better diet. Just because you eat meat doesn't mean you are eating healthy (see general population)

You conclude with "I have a hard time seeing how in my case adding meet to my diet would improve my numbers, my health, or my athletic performance."

Quality meats are a nutrient-rich energy source high in saturated fat & protein (two things lacking in a vegetarian diet). If meat is a more efficient source of good fats & protein (which boost athletic performance) than a non-meat food source, and there aren't any bad side effects then what's hard to see? By removing meat from a diet you're taking away a valuable tool which, among other things, is great for gaining or maintaining lean muscle mass.

Also another thing worth pointing out: a vegetarian diet could affect men & women differently.

This study reports the effect of a vegetarian diet and dexamethasone administration on the hormone status of healthy Caucasian men and premenopausal women. A lower nocturnal release of prolactin and testosterone occurred in men fed a vegetarian diet, while in women, dexamethasone administration decreased the nocturnal release of prolactin and caused a greater decrease of plasma dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA). These results show that diet modification can induce hormonal changes, If similar changes occur in patients with breast and/or prostatic cancer, diet modification may be of benefit in these patients with tumors known to be hormonally dependent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/159772

To close, it seems like your diet has worked for you and given you a good deal of success. That's great and I don't want to take away from that or to even imply that a vegan/vegetarian diet is wrong. My point is that a diet without quality meats is not optimal.

 

[Championstuff]

if you're a grappler like eddie bravo, then there is only one plant that you need

 

[Nozza]

Dietary cholesterol has no effect on blood serum cholesterol.

Saturated fats are fine; world leading Lipid Chemist Mary Enig advocates 50% of your dietary fat intake should come from SFA, 40% from MUFA, and 10% from PUFA with 0 Trans. We also did not come from apes, we have a similar ancestor and that is all.

The science on sat fats is far from decided. Nobody is in a position to confidently state they are "fine".

 

[Shemhazai]

Meat is one thing, but there's no way in hell that I'm ever giving up eggs.

 

[Nozza]

Meat is good guys, but we don't need anywhere NEAR the amount that most humans consume, let alone Americans. Nor do we need nearly as much grains as we get. Humans are supposed to get more of their calories off fruit, nuts, vegatation, which means less saturated fat, less cholesterol, and more fiber and nutrients and energy food. We came from apes after all.

It's impossible to say what humans are "supposed" to eat. We are a very adaptable animal which has lived on a variety of diets over the millenia and still do depending on where on the planet we live.

If you're going to follow the logic that we came from apes then you could argue we should only eat fruit since many apes do just that. But we didn't come from apes. Both apes and us evolved along separate lines from common ancestor about 10 million years ago. So what is good for apes is not necessarily good for us. We are not apes.

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

By the same tolkein

 

[Bandit07]

Eat Paleo.

Screw everything else.

 

[Coolnickname]

Meat is good guys, but we don't need anywhere NEAR the amount that most humans consume, let alone Americans. Nor do we need nearly as much grains as we get. Humans are supposed to get more of their calories off fruit, nuts, vegatation, which means less saturated fat, less cholesterol, and more fiber and nutrients and energy food. We came from apes after all.

Just thought I'd add a small detail which will turn into a wall of text..
We didn't actually come from apes. If anything we are a creature remarkably similar to and with some distinction we could almost be called an ape. But we did in no way shape or form COME FROM apes. The best way we can tell that is because apes still exist.

Evolution is not an arbitrary ladder. It's a bunch of random events and mutations that renders some organisms better fit to survive than others. Most people describe evolution as adaptation, when in reality evolution is the lack of creatures ability to adapt. The fact is that the primary effect of mutation or change of climate, living conditions etc. is that living things die. The small percentage that survives and goes on to procreate are the ones that contribute to the continued existence of the species. Animals are not machines that adapt to their environment.
Only blind luck and happenstance decides who lives and who dies in many cases. In this way we can't even say that evolution is a continuation of progress. There is no way that evolution can prove a continued improvement of living creatures. It may very well be that for freak reasons a superior species in every other way succumbed to climate change whereas an inferior one survived because of their thick fur which was just a nuisance until something went wrong.


But my point wasn't to harp on evolution. My point is that we came from what most scientists agree is a small rodent like creature which has many branches of descendants. Apes are one of them and we are another. Separate on the branch, but we share common ancestors. That is how this works.

Note that this image doesn't describe us as "descending" from gorillas or orangutans either. The fact is just that they diverted from that line of creature. And if you ask "what is that creature?" Then I'd have to say, we all are. All apes and humans. The "original creature" doesn't exist. Only in the variations that have evolved. This is why the missing link issue is there still. If we could find a good example of a medium stage of ape evolution, we could look into the joint past of all apes. Certainly a very interesting thing.





FRAT: We did not come from apes, we only have the same ancestors. Sorry for wasting your time. Continue talking about why we should or should not eat what we have evolved to be able to consume.

 

[TSO]

Meat is one thing, but there's no way in hell that I'm ever giving up eggs.

At what point did eggs become not meat? What are they considered these days?

 

[TSO]

FRAT: We did not come from apes, we only have the same ancestors. Sorry for wasting your time. Continue talking about why we should or should not eat what we have evolved to be able to consume.

Where that tree comes together at the bottom, that animal is an ape. We are also apes.

 

[Coolnickname]

When it wasn't fertilized. An egg is just a cell. An egg is about as much meat as a human sperm.

 

[Coolnickname]

Where that tree comes together at the bottom, that animal is an ape. We are also apes.

No that animal is a primate. Not necessarily an ape.

 

[winterbike]

High-carb paleo is the way to go. Lots of quality protein, bioavailable nutrients, food that tastes awesome, and you look better naked.