Pine Pollen Tincture

[71Fish]

Anyone use it? Billed as natures testosterone. Been trying it for about a week, undetermined results thus far.

 

[Bekim]

Noooo.........please someone just kill me now.......

 

[Ruckus]

I have done literally no research into this, but if it actually worked more people would be taking it. If you're worried you have low test go to a doctor and stop trying to raise it with expensive herbal bullshit.

 

[Genghiz]

It contains small amounts of actual androgens according to the literature. So if you did take enough to make any sort of difference you'd be suppressing your own production of T. Because even if it's 'natural' it's still exogenous testosterone.

You'd have similar negative side effects to taking actual T, without the benefits of proper dosing/quality control/ or benefits.

 

[TewPoint0]

I've used it for a long time. Hold the tincture under your tongue. At 34 years old my doc says he's jealous of my T levels and I attribute it to pine pollen. People will blow it off, but it's all good. People have a hard time believing nature has anything worth supplementing your diet with.

 

[TheLuckiest]

I've used it for a long time. Hold the tincture under your tongue. At 34 years old my doc says he's jealous of my T levels and I attribute it to pine pollen. People will blow it off, but it's all good. People have a hard time believing nature has anything worth supplementing you diet with.

You'd be suppressed, no? Exogenous is exogenous.

If you're dosing actual androgens, you'll be suppressed. What's the downstairs situation as far as atrophy right now?

 

[TewPoint0]

You'd be suppressed, no? Exogenous is exogenous.

If you're dosing actual androgens, you'll be suppressed. What's the downstairs situation as far as atrophy right now?

I cycle it for a couple months at a time and I don't supplement to the point where I have problems with suppression. Last time I was checked I was at 1200 ng/dL...nothing crazy, but still on the high end. My balls seem to be just fine at that level.

Also, I haven't had any issues with gyno.

 

[TheLuckiest]

I cycle it for a couple months at a time and I don't supplement to the point where I have problems with suppression. Last time I was checked I was at 1200 ng/dL...nothing crazy, but still on the high end. My balls seem to be just fine at that level.

Also, I haven't had any issues with gyno.

Interesting. I'll definitely look into it.

 

[71Fish]

I cycle it for a couple months at a time and I don't supplement to the point where I have problems with suppression. Last time I was checked I was at 1200 ng/dL...nothing crazy, but still on the high end. My balls seem to be just fine at that level.

Also, I haven't had any issues with gyno.

What do you mean by suppression as it relates to this supplement?

 

[TewPoint0]

What do you mean by suppression as it relates to this supplement?

Since pine pollen contains actual testosterone, taking a large amount could theoretically shut down (suppress) your natural testosterone production.

 

[71Fish]

Since pine pollen contains actual testosterone, taking a large amount could theoretically shut down (suppress) your natural testosterone production.

Ok. With that said, would a smaller amount (proper amount) boost natural testosterone or does the amount you take suppress by an equal amount? Make sense?

 

[TewPoint0]

Ok. With that said, would a smaller amount (proper amount) boost natural testosterone or does the amount you take suppress by an equal amount? Make sense?

It makes sense. I don't know the answer. I have an opinion but no research to back it up.

I think if you take a small dose of pine pollen tincture under your tongue about 3 to 4 times a day you'll keep your T levels high but in a normal range. Because it's still in a normal range your body doesn't shut down its natural production. My opinion is based on my own experience, but N = 1....so I can't be completely sure.

 

[71Fish]

It makes sense. I don't know the answer. I have an opinion but no research to back it up.

I think if you take a small dose of pine pollen tincture under your tongue about 3 to 4 times a day you'll keep your T levels high but in a normal range. Because it's still in a normal range your body doesn't shut down its natural production. My opinion is based on my own experience, but N = 1....so I can't be completely sure.

I've only been taking one dropper most days, occasionally two droppers. My T levels before I started taking pine pollen was right in the middle (haven't had it checked since), I'm 45, still get good wood, though not every time the wind blows, and most mornings. It's funny, when people talk about T levels, and reach a certain age, getting wood is the most important thing. I'd take the other symptoms as long as I could get regular erections.

I have my own theory about Low T but it's not backed by anything other than my thinking, might be worthy of it's own thread later.

 

[TheLuckiest]

It makes sense. I don't know the answer. I have an opinion but no research to back it up.

I think if you take a small dose of pine pollen tincture under your tongue about 3 to 4 times a day you'll keep your T levels high but in a normal range. Because it's still in a normal range your body doesn't shut down its natural production. My opinion is based on my own experience, but N = 1....so I can't be completely sure.

Your body at homeostasis does what it thinks your body needs. There is a delicate balance. Supplementing exogenous testosterone will throw that balance off, so theoretically, after X amount of time, your body will try to return to that norm by restricting it's own production. Whether you take 200mg of test a week or 1000, the shut down is the same. 200mg of exogenous test every other week (as in TRT) will suppress your natural T production yet only puts guys into a healthy/high range.

The only literature I found on the pine pollen was that (according to this lady without any cited studies) the "testosterone" is a phytoandrogen and is slightly different than your bodies own testosterone. Your body can tell the difference, thus it doesn't cause any shut down of your HPTA.

That is simply wrong. There are a ton of steroids out there that are drastically different in chemical makeup to testosterone that absolutely shut you down. Anything that binds to your androgen receptors and causes a physiological response similar to testosterone will begin to shut you down over time, even if it isn't as quickly due to your relatively small doses. I have cycled real test before following 12 weeks on, 12 weeks off, @500mg/wk (half of what most guys run) and I've never had any issues. Slight testicular atrophy that only I notice (my GF has never said she notices at all) that bounces back within 6-8 weeks after my last pin.

You may not be experiencing the side effects of shut down due to the small dose and only running it for 3 months before taking a break. I would continue to do that until there is some real scientific data available for the physiological responses of our bodies to this, but as it stands, it seems like you could run into some issues if you never came off of it.

Very interesting read, though. I'll keep looking out for it. If it is as potent as some people claim, someone will do a study on it. Then it will likely be made illegal lol.

 

[71Fish]

Your body at homeostasis does what it thinks your body needs. There is a delicate balance. Supplementing exogenous testosterone will throw that balance off, so theoretically, after X amount of time, your body will try to return to that norm by restricting it's own production. Whether you take 200mg of test a week or 1000, the shut down is the same. 200mg of exogenous test every other week (as in TRT) will suppress your natural T production yet only puts guys into a healthy/high range.

The only literature I found on the pine pollen was that (according to this lady without any cited studies) the "testosterone" is a phytoandrogen and is slightly different than your bodies own testosterone. Your body can tell the difference, thus it doesn't cause any shut down of your HPTA.

That is simply wrong. There are a ton of steroids out there that are drastically different in chemical makeup to testosterone that absolutely shut you down. Anything that binds to your androgen receptors and causes a physiological response similar to testosterone will begin to shut you down over time, even if it isn't as quickly due to your relatively small doses. I have cycled real test before following 12 weeks on, 12 weeks off, @500mg/wk (half of what most guys run) and I've never had any issues. Slight testicular atrophy that only I notice (my GF has never said she notices at all) that bounces back within 6-8 weeks after my last pin.

You may not be experiencing the side effects of shut down due to the small dose and only running it for 3 months before taking a break. I would continue to do that until there is some real scientific data available for the physiological responses of our bodies to this, but as it stands, it seems like you could run into some issues if you never came off of it.

Very interesting read, though. I'll keep looking out for it. If it is as potent as some people claim, someone will do a study on it. Then it will likely be made illegal lol.

Could you post a link to the study you found? All of the "studies" I've found finish with them trying to sell me a bottle. I'd like to see something somewhat independent.

 

[TheLuckiest]

Could you post a link to the study you found? All of the "studies" I've found finish with them trying to sell me a bottle. I'd like to see something somewhat independent.

It was kind of what you're finding. Just trying to sell stuff and hype it up. Phytoandrogens are a real thing, like the "estrogen" in soy. It isn't chemically identical, but our body treats it as estrogen. I would assume that this stuff is the same but with testosterone instead. If I find a legit clinical study I'll definitely post it.

 

[71Fish]

It was kind of what you're finding. Just trying to sell stuff and hype it up. Phytoandrogens are a real thing, like the "estrogen" in soy. It isn't chemically identical, but our body treats it as estrogen. I would assume that this stuff is the same but with testosterone instead. If I find a legit clinical study I'll definitely post it.

I actually did find find a gov't study that says it helps with rheumatoid arthritis and lowers LDL and raises HDL. I didn't copy the link though. Maybe if it gains in popularity there will be a study, and like you said, they'll make it illegal.

 

[TheLuckiest]

I actually did find find a gov't study that says it helps with rheumatoid arthritis and lowers LDL and raises HDL. I didn't copy the link though. Maybe if it gains in popularity there will be a study, and like you said, they'll make it illegal.

Do you know if that study involved the extracts under the tongue or was it ingested as powder? Ingesting it destroys the sensitive phytoandrogens according to the websites that sell the oil.

 

[71Fish]

Do you know if that study involved the extracts under the tongue or was it ingested as powder? Ingesting it destroys the sensitive phytoandrogens according to the websites that sell the oil.

It didn't specify.

 

[TheLuckiest]

It didn't specify.

The anti-inflammatory stuff I read had to do with ingesting the powder form. A lot of positive benefits are quoted including anti-inflammatory effects, lowering cholesterol, and a few other pretty awesome things. It seems reasonable, as there are a ton of natural herbal things that help with that. I'm still looking for any solid data on the extract, though.