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Philly shell: How do you use and counter it?

Well, to say they're "similar" they need to be compared and contrasted. Ward is what he is, and he's one of the most skilled guys in the game currently. If anything it speaks to my distaste for the degradation of the game in general. Also, I don't hate Broner specifically. He's just a guy doing some shit he never learned, and not doing it great. Ward is having considerably much more success, but then he has Hunter's mind behind him, which is a decent mind for that purpose. I'd just like to see Hunter replicate that success and arm some other guys say with similar tools, as opposed to having other name Pros either floating along (Khan) or doing poorly (Berto, Angulo).
 
I guess what this is really about is how do you beat on PBF when he goes into the crab or philly shell mode?
 
Just ask Jose Luis Castillo, that's exactly what he did in their first bout.
 
If you look at say, the fights between Toney/Jones and Hopkins/Jones I you see a bigger difference. Hopkins didn't stand still and try to counter-punch Jones the way Toney did, he tried to crowd him and apply a lot of pressure with deceptive movement and a jab the way the other Philly fighters did. Toney's lack of ability to time Jones led to a lot of leaping in and out, which you see with the Michigan fighters, not so much the Philly guys. If they leap in they stayed in and did their best work. Toney seemd at a loss when right up against Roy, way more comfortable at mid-range. Whereas you hang out inside with Bernard, he can tear you apart.


Interesting you point out those fights. Similarly, Griffin first fight vs Jones he was the aggressor and was consistently countering jones, crowding him and tearing him up inside for much of that fight. Then of course the second fight (the later part of the first also), he tried to wait on Roy and took a more cautious approach....... and it took Roy 1 rd to sleep him.

Conversely, you watch the 2 fights Toney had vs. McCallum and vs. Montell Griffin. In both fights, when Toney was waiting on them looking for the counter and trying to work on the inside he was far less effective than when he became the agressor and got busy with his jab, came forward and pressed. Interesting that when Toney fought the "Philly" fighters (Futch's guys) with that "Michigan" style he was far less effective trying to be the counterfighter, paradoxically he was far more effective as the aggressor in both the second fights vs Griffin and McCallum. I.E: He became the "philly" fighter, forced Griffin and McCallum (more so with Griffin) to do what they did to him in the first fights. He used his jab to keep the fight in that mid-range in both the 2nd bouts......
 
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Yeah, Toney was always a counter-puncher with the disposition of a brawler. That was one of the things that betrayed him in fights. If he couldn't just have his way with you, he could become impatient, but would sometimes still try to out-flash a guy rather than just beat them up.
 
I guess what this is really about is how do you beat on PBF when he goes into the crab or philly shell mode?

IMO, beating on him when he shells up isn't the difficult part. Plenty of guys have done it (As noted Castillo most effectively). The difficult part is doing it consistently over the course of a fight and not allowing Floyd to mentally / physically and systematically brake you down in the process. In short, there may be 48 ways to beat on Floyd when he's in the shell, but 0 ways of doing it consistently, effectively and well enough to beat him....... at least thus far!
 
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Yeah, Toney was always a counter-puncher with the disposition of a brawler. That was one of the things that betrayed him in fights. If he couldn't just have his way with you, he could become impatient, but would sometimes still try to out-flash a guy rather than just beat them up.

I'm not sure of the fight, but since this thread I looked up some Toney highlights. I see a highlight of him being pressured into the ropes and then he just unloads some really bad body hooks and then finishes with a straight or something (technique wise)? Is that the sort of disposition you're saying? When he couldn't impose his game, he sort of just liked to knock them out with sheer strength?
 
Something like that.
 
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