Pereira is already higher than Izzy in the "all time great" rankings

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Khalil would have beaten the shit out of Skinnyreem Nogueira and even Machida. Chuck was just a brawler who got slept by Rampage. Arona LOL...

And you forgot to mention beating Jiri twice, Ankalaev and Blachowitz in Poatan resume.

Youve got a lot of faith in Khalil considering his career best wins are Jamahal Hill and Anthony Smith....

Jiri is a coin flip vs Rampage, Machida and Reem. Also vs prime Chuck although granted he was washed when Shogun fought him. Jiri has good offence and is athletic but hes sloppy and reckless.

Ank passes the eye test but its not like his resume is anything special.

Jan was 40 years old and couldnt get a sniff at the top 5 a decade ago.

 

[burningspear]

Izzy's last hurrah was flatlining Poatan. I'd say that aged pretty well.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Fought or beaten? Because those are two different things entirely, and there's a lot more good (and mediocre) fighters Shogun also fought but lost to as well. Khalil and Hill get mentioned to put Pereira down somehow, but beating them's better than beating... uh James Te Huna?

Including Machida and Chuck (but not Forrest loss there eh) in your run also means you're not just sticking to just Pride so I'm not sure why we shouldn't include Pereira's MW wins too.

Shogun's a legend obviously, but I don't think it's exactly controversial to say Pereira's above him all time. Neither are first ballot top 5 level GOATs, but Pereira's got a much better claim to being in the 2nd-3rd level than Shogun who's way lower down and you're instead saying he's just somewhere in the top 50ish probably.

Shogun had lower lows but thats also partly down to sticking around in MMA for over 20 years and having nearly 3x as many fights. But his top end wins are at the very least on par with Poatans.

As far as who ranks higher? I guess Poatan, but its apples to oranges really. The UFC portion of Shoguns career was extremely patchy, but heading into the first Machida fight he was 18-3, Poatan is 13-3 right now. If you put Poatan into a Pride ring against Shogun I really dont know who i'd favour.

 

[2004 account]

He also did what everyone thought Khamzat was destined to do in record time. Smashed errybahdee, won a world title, won a 2nd title and succesfully defended it, and has been consistently active beyond what we typically see from defending champions.

He's him, as the cool kids would say

That's why khamzat is jealous.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Shogun beat a lot of jabronis. Level of competition is not even close.

Prime vs Prime Alex kills sloppy Shogun inside 1 round

Yeah but Alex also hasn't even fought anyone with a tough style match up except for Ank and he is 1-1. Alex loses to the Coleman, Randleman, Reem maybe Rampage and Lil Nog too. Prime Shogun wasn't sloppy. You are thinking of no knees Shogun who hung around a long time after he should probably have retired.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Yeah but Alex also hasn't even fought anyone with a tough style match up except for Ank and he is 1-1. Alex loses to the Coleman, Randleman, Reem maybe Rampage and Lil Nog too. Prime Shogun wasn't sloppy. You are thinking of no knees Shogun who hung around a long time after he should probably have retired.

I think you are overestimating Colemnan Randleman and Skinnyreem.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I think you are overestimating Colemnan Randleman and Skinnyreem.

I think you are over estimating Alex's abilities against fighters with TD threat.

 

[DumpsterBaby]

When are you guys going to understand that it’s allll bullshit? Izzy was the king of a shallow division after Anderson aged out of said shallow division. The needed a slick black guy to maintain any draw the division had. UFC was without real star power when Alex showed up. Cue an assload of marketing and favorable matchmaking with some weird tribal shtick created for a blue collar Brazilian with a drinking problem that wasn’t raised in some isolated village in the Amazon.

It’s inches away from pro-wrestling. Most matches aren’t fixed, but it’s as manufactured as can be now.

 

[Bowel-forged Stool]

Pretty classless to do the

Maybe it was spur of the moment against Hill but he did it again against Ank.
He also discredited Ank saying he was 40% rather than say he was the better man that night

The owl was hooting at him on social media talking about not respecting Poat and how he’d finish Poat in the first round. I wouldn’t say his post fight display makes him classless considering.

 

[Prazeres]

Izzy's last hurrah was flatlining Poatan. I'd say that aged pretty well.

I remember thinking that losing to Alex who had so little experience in MMA would be a huge blow to his legacy, only for it to lead to his career defining win lol.
Ten years from now, when people are gonna remember Izzy it's gonna be for knocking out Alex first and foremost.

 

[SuperAlly]

Izzy's last hurrah was flatlining Poatan. I'd say that aged pretty well.

Izzy's latest hurrahs were losing to Strickland and getting stopped by DPP and Imavov. And none of them may prove to be his last hurrah

 

[L0ki]

- Won the UFC belt faster in the UFC than Izzy*
This is 100% because of Izzy. Alex only made his way in the UFC because he had kickboxing history with him

- Despite a compromised weight cut at MW he was able to win the belt and destroyed Izzy.*
Destroyed? Standing TKO for a win is destroyed? How did that rematch go? compromised weight cut? How about had to cut weight to fight smaller guys? How about Despite the massive size discrepancy Izzy KO'd him dead cold.

- Pereira is always a class act and truly humble*
Is he really? Pretty classless to do the

Maybe it was spur of the moment against Hill but he did it again against Ank.
He also discredited Ank saying he was 40% rather than say he was the better man that night in the first fight.

Your "Facts" are mostly spun for your opinion.
Izzy > Alex at MW
Alex is behind a lot of guys IMO as a LHW. Jones, Chuck, Randy, Shogun are all higher on the LHW GOAT list. He has only fought 1 guy at LHW that isn't a perfect style match up and he is 1-1 against him. Throw in a SD over Jan in a 3 rounder. If Alex were to fight LHWs with good wresting would he be where he is??? He is fortunate there basically aren't any.

I see the lens you're looking through but I think OP means in a more ambivalent way.

I don't think it's referring to LHW or MW GOAT but more of a general all timer sort of in a space where DC and Handy are.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

The owl was hooting at him on social media talking about not respecting Poat and how he’d finish Poat in the first round. I wouldn’t say his post fight display makes him classless considering.

Pre fight shit talk to sell the fight =/= post fight showboating.
He just KO'd the guy what is the need for the extra Schtick???
Even if we go with the things Ank did as "Classless" sinking to that level doesn't = "Classy"

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I see the lens you're looking through but I think OP means in a more ambivalent way.

I don't think it's referring to LHW or MW GOAT but more of a general all timer sort of in a space where DC and Handy are.

DC fought the best available to him at LHW and HW. He didn't win the title riding someone's coat tails that he beat in wrestling. Randy is a GOAT for taking on challenges that he was supposed to lose and winning most of the time. Starting his career at the same age that Jones is crying he is too old to fight a 32 year old due to the age advantage.

Alex being parachuted in to a HW fight with no legit reign as a LHW doesn't fly for me. He is on a 1 fight win streak. Cro Cop would have walked thru all the guys Alex fought but he had to fight guys with difficult style match ups. Alex keeps fighting lesser kickboxers in MMA. Rock always beats Scissors. Scissors always beats paper. Paper always beats Rock. Its not interesting to watch squash matches IMO. That is why guys Like Randy or Frankie Edgar or GSP were interesting. They took on every different style or bad style match ups to see if they could do it not just perfect match ups.

 

[Motivated BJ Penn]

DC fought the best available to him at LHW and HW. He didn't win the title riding someone's coat tails that he beat in wrestling. Randy is a GOAT for taking on challenges that he was supposed to lose and winning most of the time. Starting his career at the same age that Jones is crying he is too old to fight a 32 year old due to the age advantage.

Alex being parachuted in to a HW fight with no legit reign as a LHW doesn't fly for me. He is on a 1 fight win streak. Cro Cop would have walked thru all the guys Alex fought but he had to fight guys with difficult style match ups. Alex keeps fighting lesser kickboxers in MMA. Rock always beats Scissors. Scissors always beats paper. Paper always beats Rock. Its not interesting to watch squash matches IMO. That is why guys Like Randy or Frankie Edgar or GSP were interesting. They took on every different style or bad style match ups to see if they could do it not just perfect match ups.

No legit reign? He pretty much cleared the division... and just beat a dagi wrestler. What are u smoking mate?

If he beats Jones hes undeniable the LHW GOAT

 

[RockyLockridge]

Izzy Ko'd him stiff. that always happened and we cant take it from izzy he's an amazing special talent as well

 

[dipstickjimmy]

No legit reign? He pretty much cleared the division... and just beat a dagi wrestler. What are u smoking mate?

If he beats Jones hes undeniable the LHW GOAT

He has 3 defenses. He is on a 1 fight win streak. How The Fnck is that a dominant reign? Not close to Jones. Not close to GSP, not close to Anderson, not close to DJ, not close to Aldo. Beating Jones doesn't make Alex GOAT LHW. Is Denis Hallman > Matt Hughes all time at WW? He beat him twice after all.

Beating Jones at HW means nothing for Alex as a HW and means nothing for him as a LHW. Might be a good paycheck though.

 

[ExitLUPin]

Izzy's last hurrah was flatlining Poatan. I'd say that aged pretty well.

Technically true, but he was severely drained at 185lbs. Sean saw him backstage and thought he shouldn't make the cut again. He was physically compromised with the cut.

 

[SuperAlly]

Izzy Ko'd him stiff. that always happened and we cant take it from izzy he's an amazing special talent as well

He was.

Alex is better in every way. We can't take that away from him.

 

[arcadeperfect]

Funny how far an MMA career can go when you're a double-belt kickboxing champ who then only gets matched up in kickboxing matches in MMA.

Imagine if Gordon Ryan came over and the UFC gave him 100 fights where his opponent did nothing but grapple. Would any of the fans tolerate it? Or does it just work with kickboxing?

Best grappler he fought was Jan. And it was a split decision. If that fight had championship rounds... almost certainly a loss.

I don't dislike Alex, but this talk of GOAT this and that... really shows how impervious people are to clear examples of career-directing

What grapplers was he supposed to fight? Ankalaev was supposed to be his nightmare and Alex was able to overcome that obstacle easily. You're making it sound like MW and LHW was stacked with grapplers that Alex ducked.