Pereira is already higher than Izzy in the "all time great" rankings

[Dionysian]

Funny how far an MMA career can go when you're a double-belt kickboxing champ who then only gets matched up in kickboxing matches in MMA.

Imagine if Gordon Ryan came over and the UFC gave him 100 fights where his opponent did nothing but grapple. Would any of the fans tolerate it? Or does it just work with kickboxing?

Best grappler he fought was Jan. And it was a split decision. If that fight had championship rounds... almost certainly a loss.

I don't dislike Alex, but this talk of GOAT this and that... really shows how impervious people are to clear examples of career-directing

 

[markg171]

The "beat ___ champs" isn't that useful since Izzy himself was champ for a long run so the MW title didn't change hands enough for there to be that many different champs.

Amazing. Truly amazing.

You completely blew right past that Alex has beaten more champions... because he's successfully moved up to LHW unlike Izzy. He literally beat the champion who made Izzy an 0-1 LHW who had to scamper back down, and then beat a bunch of other LHW champions too.

Izzy can only beat who he can at MW sure, but he didn't try to stay at MW did he? How do you possibly make such a mistake dude...? Unless it wasn't a mistake.

 

[TheBulge]

I have always said that Adesanya is overrated as an all time great because he did nothing but beat strikers after all the great grapplers of the division aged out. Even by the time he fought Romero the man was a shadow of himself and didnt attempt 1 takedown. Izzy's best win against a grappler is Brunson, who is a good wrestler but a career journeyman.

So in the end he lost to the 2 best strikers he faced(Jan and Alex) and once he started aging himself, he had a freefall down a huge cliff because reflexes are the first to go. What he is now reminds me of Roy Jones' downfall. Meanwhile Pereira is still close to his peak in his late 30s because he has a lot of technique, power and mental strength still carrying him.

Adesanya still has a case for top 3 ATG MW only because of these reasons:
-Anderson Silva reigned MW for such a long time that nobody else was able to create a legacy there.
-Adesanya came in a striking-only era which was his specialty.
-The era before him had better fighters like Jacare, Romero, Rockhold, Mousasi, Whittaker Pre Usada Weidman, but this was a shark tank. All these guys beat the shit out of eachother so once again, nobody was able to create a legacy. Except maybe RW.

Legends are legends because they have a good legacy and circumstances are probably the most important ingredient for that. Talent alone is not gonna put you in the highest ATG rankings, because again I can name several more talented MW's than Adesanya who aren't ranked as high.

Alex scores more points than Adesanya because he has already beaten his greatest grappling challenge who is in his prime and 2- He is highly successful in a higher weightclass. Another thing Adesanya failed.

 

[PrideNverDies]

Funny how far an MMA career can go when you're a double-belt kickboxing champ who then only gets matched up in kickboxing matches in MMA.

Imagine if Gordon Ryan came over and the UFC gave him 100 fights where his opponent did nothing but grapple. Would any of the fans tolerate it? Or does it just work with kickboxing?

Best grappler he fought was Jan. And it was a split decision. If that fight had championship rounds... almost certainly a loss.

I don't dislike Alex, but this talk of GOAT this and that... really shows how impervious people are to clear examples of career-directing

You're a huge Alex hater and always been. Your word means nothing. He just KOd a dagi wrestler. Gordon Ryan would get exposed in MMA. Terrible take

 

[markg171]

Funny how far an MMA career can go when you're a double-belt kickboxing champ who then only gets matched up in kickboxing matches in MMA.

Imagine if Gordon Ryan came over and the UFC gave him 100 fights where his opponent did nothing but grapple. Would any of the fans tolerate it? Or does it just work with kickboxing?

Best grappler he fought was Jan. And it was a split decision. If that fight had championship rounds... almost certainly a loss.

I don't dislike Alex, but this talk of GOAT this and that... really shows how impervious people are to clear examples of career-directing

Please tell us which imaginary grapplers he should've fought at MW and LHW

 

[TheBulge]

Funny how far an MMA career can go when you're a double-belt kickboxing champ who then only gets matched up in kickboxing matches in MMA.

Imagine if Gordon Ryan came over and the UFC gave him 100 fights where his opponent did nothing but grapple. Would any of the fans tolerate it? Or does it just work with kickboxing?

Best grappler he fought was Jan. And it was a split decision. If that fight had championship rounds... almost certainly a loss.

I don't dislike Alex, but this talk of GOAT this and that... really shows how impervious people are to clear examples of career-directing

I don't disagree but we're comparing him to Adesanya here. Pereira's wins over Jan and Ankalaev put him in a category above the completely one dimensional Adesanya. The cherry on top is the fact that Adesanya even failed to beat the same Jan because of the grappling aspect.

 

[Dr. Rose]

- Won the UFC belt faster in the UFC than Izzy*
This is 100% because of Izzy. Alex only made his way in the UFC because he had kickboxing history with him

- Despite a compromised weight cut at MW he was able to win the belt and destroyed Izzy.*
Destroyed? Standing TKO for a win is destroyed? How did that rematch go? compromised weight cut? How about had to cut weight to fight smaller guys? How about Despite the massive size discrepancy Izzy KO'd him dead cold.

- Pereira is always a class act and truly humble*
Is he really? Pretty classless to do the

Maybe it was spur of the moment against Hill but he did it again against Ank.
He also discredited Ank saying he was 40% rather than say he was the better man that night in the first fight.

Your "Facts" are mostly spun for your opinion.
Izzy > Alex at MW
Alex is behind a lot of guys IMO as a LHW. Jones, Chuck, Randy, Shogun are all higher on the LHW GOAT list. He has only fought 1 guy at LHW that isn't a perfect style match up and he is 1-1 against him. Throw in a SD over Jan in a 3 rounder. If Alex were to fight LHWs with good wresting would he be where he is??? He is fortunate there basically aren't any.

Always hated that post fight celebration. Not as bad as the grave digger and the butt sex, but pretty obnoxius.

 

[Staph infection]

Obviously neither is close to be the GOAT but Pereira is more accomplished than Izzy in MMA.

Lets look at the FACTS

- Pereira 6 wins over UFC champs > Izzy 3 wins over UFC champs (washed silva)
- Won the UFC LHW belt, beat Jan and Strickland, 2 things Izzy failed badly to do.
- Pereira 8 finishes > Izzy 5 finishes
- Won the UFC belt faster in the UFC than Izzy
- Pereira beat better competition: Jan, Hill, 2x Jiri, Rountree, Ank > Vettori, Romero, Costa, Whittaker and Cannonier
- Pereira is more loved and accepted by the fans
- Pereira is always a class act and truly humble
- Despite a compromised weight cut at MW he was able to win the belt and destroyed Izzy.

Yeah Izzy might have a better MW career but Pereira LHW runs is far better than Izzy.

Also Izzy might have 7 tittle wins but Pereira will tie him once he beats Ulberg and since Pereira would do it against better competition that would put him further above Izzy.

Thoughts?

Izzy is only focused on creating Iconic moments. He told us this 10 million times during those stupid interview videos that the UFC pushed down our throat while he was champ.

 

[JKS]

Yes, Alex is higher on the all time rankings. He's done very well in his UFC career.

Izzy is the second best MW of all time IMO in the goat MW rankings.

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

Funny how far an MMA career can go when you're a double-belt kickboxing champ who then only gets matched up in kickboxing matches in MMA.

Imagine if Gordon Ryan came over and the UFC gave him 100 fights where his opponent did nothing but grapple. Would any of the fans tolerate it? Or does it just work with kickboxing?

Best grappler he fought was Jan. And it was a split decision. If that fight had championship rounds... almost certainly a loss.

I don't dislike Alex, but this talk of GOAT this and that... really shows how impervious people are to clear examples of career-directing

Gave you a like bc I can definitely see what you mean, but I disagree.

The dweeby fan boys are the only people suggesting GOAT status, it's to be expected as he's popular with casuals, and his team have done a spectacular job of handling his match ups.
Winnable fights that moved him up the rankings, and he beat every UFC opponent, all by stoppage except Jan and Bruno Silva.

I think most long time fans are in agreement that his run is a breath of fresh air, much more than it's some nefarious scam being pulled on the fanbase lol

 

[TheBulge]

It's probably pretty close. Izzy was 13-2 in the UFC when he lost the belt with his losses being at LHW and the loss to Alex that he avenged right after. Alex is 10-2 and is 1-1 with both guys he lost to.

The "beat ___ champs" isn't that useful since Izzy himself was champ for a long run so the MW title didn't change hands enough for there to be that many different champs.

Is being 1-1 with the guys you lost to worse than being 0-1 against Jan, Strickland, DDP and russian dude?

 

[JBJ was here]

Best grappler he fought was Jan. And it was a split decision. If that fight had championship rounds... almost certainly a loss.

Jan's best round against Pereira, by far, was the first round, and his gas tank was spent by round 3. If that fight went to the championship rounds they'd have been hauling Jan's corpse out in a casket.

 

[SuperAlly]

Obviously neither is close to be the GOAT but Pereira is more accomplished than Izzy in MMA.

Lets look at the FACTS

- Pereira 6 wins over UFC champs > Izzy 3 wins over UFC champs (washed silva)
- Won the UFC LHW belt, beat Jan and Strickland, 2 things Izzy failed badly to do.
- Pereira 8 finishes > Izzy 5 finishes
- Won the UFC belt faster in the UFC than Izzy
- Pereira beat better competition: Jan, Hill, 2x Jiri, Rountree, Ank > Vettori, Romero, Costa, Whittaker and Cannonier
- Pereira is more loved and accepted by the fans
- Pereira is always a class act and truly humble
- Despite a compromised weight cut at MW he was able to win the belt and destroyed Izzy.

Yeah Izzy might have a better MW career but Pereira LHW runs is far better than Izzy.

Also Izzy might have 7 tittle wins but Pereira will tie him once he beats Ulberg and since Pereira would do it against better competition that would put him further above Izzy.

Thoughts?

He surpassed Izzy ages ago. Beating Jan and winning the LHW title was enough, in addition to what he already did at MW

 

[SuperAlly]

- Won the UFC belt faster in the UFC than Izzy*
This is 100% because of Izzy. Alex only made his way in the UFC because he had kickboxing history with him

- Despite a compromised weight cut at MW he was able to win the belt and destroyed Izzy.*
Destroyed? Standing TKO for a win is destroyed? How did that rematch go? compromised weight cut? How about had to cut weight to fight smaller guys? How about Despite the massive size discrepancy Izzy KO'd him dead cold.

- Pereira is always a class act and truly humble*
Is he really? Pretty classless to do the

Maybe it was spur of the moment against Hill but he did it again against Ank.
He also discredited Ank saying he was 40% rather than say he was the better man that night in the first fight.

Your "Facts" are mostly spun for your opinion.
Izzy > Alex at MW
Alex is behind a lot of guys IMO as a LHW. Jones, Chuck, Randy, Shogun are all higher on the LHW GOAT list. He has only fought 1 guy at LHW that isn't a perfect style match up and he is 1-1 against him. Throw in a SD over Jan in a 3 rounder. If Alex were to fight LHWs with good wresting would he be where he is??? He is fortunate there basically aren't any.

Salty McSalterton of Saltsville, Salt County.

 

[SuperAlly]

Always hated that post fight celebration. Not as bad as the grave digger and the butt sex, but pretty obnoxius.

No, he only did it to people who disrespected him first

 

[markg171]

Is being 1-1 with the guys you lost to worse than being 0-1 against Jan, Strickland and russian dude?

There's genuinely no consensus way to score GOATs on Sherdog because everybody just utterly abandons any sense of objectivity whenever it suits them.

As you say going 1-1 for some is somehow worse then straight up losing (unless you're GSP then the losses don't count as you "beat everybody you ever fought"), as is winning controversial 48-47 decisions instead of just getting KO'd and definitively losing. Obviously none of those things are true but you still see them all the time.

It's utterly baffling when you see some peoples takes on GOAT scoring as they're just complete nonsense made up on the spot depending on the fighter.

 

[Söze Aldo]

The numbers bear it out. I feel like Izzy was a bit of a bigger crossover star at his peak but that's probably because he has the benefit of speaking English and had that whole anime fan thing he was doing.

 

[XociDe]

He was higher than Izzy on the all time list like 4 fights ago

 

[TheBulge]

There's genuinely no consensus way to score GOATs on Sherdog because everybody just utterly abandons any sense of objectivity whenever it suits them.

As you say going 1-1 for some is somehow worse then straight up losing (unless you're GSP then the losses don't count as you "beat everybody you ever fought"), as is winning controversial 48-47 decisions instead of just getting KO'd and definitively losing. Obviously none of those things are true but you still see them all the time.

It's utterly baffling when you see some peoples takes on GOAT scoring as they're just complete nonsense made up on the spot depending on the fighter.

Well, most of Adesanya's fans have given in/given up on this topic. It's pretty obvious what the reality is at this point. But there are still a couple left who won't give in, and I'm just not following their logic.

The funny thing is, all the haters cliche's about Pereira has turned out to be true about Adesanya. It is Adesanya who is the one dimensional one who has never beaten a good grappler. It is Adesanya who is the one who can only fight in one weightclass. And it's Adesanya who got an undeserved title shot(DDP).

And last but not least, it is Adesanya who is now going to bars watching Poatan fights telling others he once beat that guy.

 

[nostradumbass]

Amazing. Truly amazing.

You completely blew right past that Alex has beaten more champions... because he's successfully moved up to LHW unlike Izzy. He literally beat the champion who made Izzy an 0-1 LHW who had to scamper back down, and then beat a bunch of other LHW champions too.

Izzy can only beat who he can at MW sure, but he didn't try to stay at MW did he? How do you possibly make such a mistake dude...? Unless it wasn't a mistake.

I mean you intentionally cut off the first half of the post where I said he lost at LHW, and it obviously wasn't by accident. Yes, most of the "former champs" he beat were at LHW because that was a revolving door of weak champs and vacant titles.

Izzy is an actual MW who weighed in at 200 lbs for his lone LHW title fight and lost a decision to Jan, Pereira fled MW with a 4-1 record after getting flatlined because he couldn't make the weight anymore, and is still the biggest guy at LHW and won a 3 round split decision against Jan to get a vacant title shot, then defended against another guy who won a vacant title that he never defended.