People that face crank during training

[Turkleton]

just a story from a while ago that came to mind:

I was still rather new to grappling at that time (about~4months or so) and I was rolling with a more experienced guy and he had my back and was trying to get the rnc. I defended for a while and kept my chin tucked in and he couldn't get his arm under my chin so he started to just crank my face like crazy.
I tapped immediately but still my jaw hurt for the next few days.

Imo it's a pretty big dickmove to go for such things during light rolling especially on a beginner. If you go for stuff like that in tournaments or if you go 100% with a training partner it's a different thing and totally ok.
I didn't call him out on that and haven't really rolled alot with him since then but I was wondering what your stance is on moves like that in practice?

like I know it's a contact sport and sometimes you get hurt but stuff like face cranks etc. are just unnecessary at class unless you and your training partner agree before the roll to go a 100%, at least in my opinion.

what do you think about that?

 

[Darwinambrosius]

I don't really see an issue. There's a difference between being malicious and applying less-than-popular subs, like what you described or getting wrist locked while defending an arm bar or an omoplata. And what you've described isn't exactly an example of going 100%.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

Its a rough sport. Generally if you get in a bad spot and don't tap your partner will make you suffer more until you give up. You should tap out once you are in a bad spot to avoid that.

 

[nefti]

Tucking the chin is a temporary stop gap and not a defense to the chokes. Would I do that to a beginner? No. But then again I would have no problems doing it to a person who is a belt lvl lower than me or at my belt lvl.

 

[Russky]

Tucking the chin is a temporary stop gap and not a defense to the chokes.

I would not even call that temporary. All that guy on the back has to do is push his elbow into the chest and finish. Shoulders up, not chin down.

 

[NateTx4112]

Don't tuck your chin....problem solved.

 

[bowened]

Sounds like he taught you a valuable lesson about relying on chin tucking.

 

[FatherSauce]

I wouldn't do it to a beginner but I wouldn't hate on someone who does it to everyone including beginners.

My personal rule at this point is I don't mind anything anyone does to me as long as they give me time to tap.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Well, there are face cranks and rnc on the jaw... Not the same, normally I would call a face crank a rnc slightly above the chin the the forearm, that Inflickts pain but nothing more, now your face was in between this rnc with the v shape around your face, that's a legit choke because of its done right you can still get choke out or your jaw broken, tucking the chin should be your first line of defense NOT the only one, chin tuck shoulders up and hand fighting all at he same time...

 

[CYKO]

I do it all the time, and it gets done to me all the time. Deal with it.

 

[Dirty Holt]

The problem is that you dont want to feel embarrassed by tapping to a forearm to the face. If it was causing that much damage or that much hurt, you would tap just like an arm bar or a knee bar. The fact is that it doesnt feel good, and you dont want to look like a pussy by tapping, not that its some malicious dick move.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

If you don't want to get your face cranked, lift up your chin and let him choke you.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Guy did it to me once. Split my lower lip open. Next time we rolled, I dropped my torso onto his face while going for cross body. He ended up bleeding from his nose.

Just give him the same treatment, TS. With interest.

 

[Marfa]

Remember to wear your big boy's pants next time you roll.

 

[Codger]

I'm in two minds about it. If they're just trying to apply the RNC and you're blocking with your chin then it's your look out. And the people that whine about it - the guys who give you dirty looks if something hurts should fuck off out of the sport with their passive aggressive attempts at pussifying the art. I really don't like the guys that when you're trying an arm triangle or something and they eventually tap and then sit up all "ow man, that really hurt my neck" - yeah well tap earlier then. It happens to all of us. They almost certainly have done it themselves it without realising it, the difference is not everyone is a bitch so they didn't get told off.

But on the other hand deliberately applying pain only versions of valid subs is stupid because you're not learning to actually choke someone. In an SD situation someone tapping doesn't disable them. They can scream and tap and get right up and stab you. Even in a comp, people can brave though some of them. So you do actually want to learn to do the subs right and not just make people hurt. Afterall, if it just about hurting people then you might as well add ball grabs, nipple tweaks and so on. That's not what it's about. I draw the line at ear-grind Ekekiels etc but a badly appplied and painful Ezekiel is just a bad attempt at a good sub.

 

[Primitivo]

Remember to wear your big boy's pants next time you roll.

 

[NateTx4112]

How OP feels right now.

There are ways to defend the RNC/Face crank. Best option (besides not letting them take your back) is 2 on 1 control of the choking hand (other hand should be trapped under the armpit and not a danger) and fighting that off at ALL Costs first.

Tucking your chin and then using both hands to peel your hooks off vs. defending the choke is NOT a good option and leads to you having your face hurt and bitching about it online. We've all been there, this is a little tough love. Focus on learning good RNC defense vs. whining online.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I'm in two minds about it. If they're just trying to apply the RNC and you're blocking with your chin then it's your look out. And the people that whine about it - the guys who give you dirty looks if something hurts should fuck off out of the sport with their passive aggressive attempts at pussifying the art. I really don't like the guys that when you're trying an arm triangle or something and they eventually tap and then sit up all "ow man, that really hurt my neck" - yeah well tap earlier then. It happens to all of us. They almost certainly have done it themselves it without realising it, the difference is not everyone is a bitch so they didn't get told off.

But on the other hand deliberately applying pain only versions of valid subs is stupid because you're not learning to actually choke someone. In an SD situation someone tapping doesn't disable them. They can scream and tap and get right up and stab you. Even in a comp, people can brave though some of them. So you do actually want to learn to do the subs right and not just make people hurt. Afterall, if it just about hurting people then you might as well add ball grabs, nipple tweaks and so on. That's not what it's about. I draw the line at ear-grind Ekekiels etc but a badly appplied and painful Ezekiel is just a bad attempt at a good sub.

this is very true, trying to inflict pain by rnc the face of your opponent (this is basically a RNC very high above the chin) is not a good RNC and If I was the instructor I would at least tell my student you are doing it wrong

 

[the heed]

Tucking your chin and then using both hands to peel your hooks off vs. defending the choke is NOT a good option and leads to you having your face hurt and bitching about it online. We've all been there, this is a little tough love. Focus on learning good RNC defense vs. whining online.

This should be said for a lot of the threads on this forum.

 

[mattemate]

Just tap and reset, or say you have a jaw disorder or something, and continue in the same position. My shoulder is tweaked right now. A guy had me in a weird position where he was able to crank it up a little bit the other day. I tapped and let him know that that wasn't a really good crank but that the shoulder is giving me problems so whatever, can you do something else from that posotion, or let's just reset.