Pecker Problems (Mueller+ Investigation Thread v. 21)

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

For nothing, what's been uncovered and shared with the public so far seems for all the world like something.

At this point Republicans would be halfway through impeachment proceedings with a (D) POTUS.

The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Question for our sherdog legal beagle minds. based on a discussion that came up with a group I was having drinks with last night.

The question was 'why does not Trump just pardon all the key plaeyrs now since his base wold still stick by him regardless'.

This was my view...

If Trump was to just start pardoning key players in this investigation Muller then could start to compel them to be witnesses and to testify fully to any and all involvement they had.

Similar to like when a person is granted immunity from prosecution he cannot then claim the 5th and refuse to testify because he cannot incriminate himself. Thus the same happens here, in that the person has a pardon on those crimes/charges and thus cannot claim the 5th. If they then refuse to testify or lie in doing so they can then be charged with new crimes that the pardon does not apply to.

So to put this plainly, you would have someone like Manafort cleared of all current charges by Trump with a pardon. He takes a big sigh of relief but he is immediately called to testify and he faces a decision. IF he lies or does not disclose and the prosecution can build a case against him, he again is in legal jeopardy of going back to jail. Howvere if he NOW just cooperates and never lies and discloses all he is truly free.

THis could be a reason for Trump to hold all pardons until near the very end of all the lines being investigated as he really needs to pardon ALL the parties so no one needs to talk. If a fraction are pardoned but Muller can still chase more and build a corroboration and collaboration case using the others and implicate those pardoned, they will all again face significant risk unless they all talk.

Do I have this correct?

(for the same of this example I am ignoring the potential peril of any State brought charges)

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Was watching some fake news CNN analysis of this fake President's real problems. A former US Attorney and a former federal prosecutor agreed that Giuliani is largely posturing, maybe to appease his client. They also agree that Mueller will "follow the spirit" of the 60 day election campaign guideline.

Also that the list of indicted and convicted is long for a Special Counsel to have racked up already.

 

[Ophydian]

Was watching some fake news CNN analysis of this fake President's real problems. A former US Attorney and a former federal prosecutor agreed that Giuliani is largely posturing, maybe to appease his client. They also agree that Mueller will "follow the spirit" of the 60 day election campaign guideline.

Also that the list of indicted and convicted is long for a Special Counsel to have racked up already.

That’s not entirely true. If this weren’t a witch hunt all of those convictions would be meaningless and not very special.



I think I just threw up in my mouth. This is some bullshit coffee.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

That’s not entirely true. If this weren’t a witch hunt all of those convictions would be meaningless and not very special.



I think I just threw up in my mouth. This is some bullshit coffee.

I remain concerned that it could turn out that a president can end an investigation into himself. He's gonna fire the AG after the elections and I may be headed to the swamp with a single word in letters as big as I can get em,
RESIGN.

Probably invest in a large professionally made banner.

 

[Fawlty]

Was watching some fake news CNN analysis of this fake President's real problems. A former US Attorney and a former federal prosecutor agreed that Giuliani is largely posturing, maybe to appease his client. They also agree that Mueller will "follow the spirit" of the 60 day election campaign guideline.

Also that the list of indicted and convicted is long for a Special Counsel to have racked up already.

This could get interesting because the 60 days thing is arbitrary and the investigation doesn't just stop. The idea is that you shouldn't do what Comey did to the Clinton campaign, but that was the result of internal leaking and pro-Trump rebellion within the FBI, to which Comey caved. Stuff was being leaked regardless of whether Comey had come out with public findings.

Who is going to stop the pro-Trump agents from leaking in order to sabotage the "60 days?" What will be the rhetorical reply when these leaks occur, and people blame it on Mueller? Trump can false-flag his way into an attempt to stop the investigation, creating another constitutional crisis and obstructing justice yet again. I think the chances of that are quite real, and in that case it's guaranteed that Trump, Nunes and everyone subordinate to them (like Dershowitz and Waigu) will happily take the ball and run with it.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

This could get interesting because the 60 days thing is arbitrary and the investigation doesn't just stop. The idea is that you shouldn't do what Comey did to the Clinton campaign, but that was the result of internal leaking and pro-Trump rebellion within the FBI, to which Comey caved. Stuff was being leaked regardless of whether Comey had come out with public findings.

Who is going to stop the pro-Trump agents from leaking in order to sabotage the "60 days?" What will be the rhetorical reply when these leaks occur, and people blame it on Mueller? Trump can false-flag his way into an attempt to stop the investigation, creating another constitutional crisis and obstructing justice yet again. I think the chances of that are quite real, and in that case it's guaranteed that Trump, Nunes and everyone subordinate to them (like Dershowitz and Waigu) will happily take the ball and run with it.

I have faith that the American people won't stand for a leader making himself an untouchable king. We don't have those on this side of the ocean.

R or D, nobody should support this. Because next time it'll be the other guy getting away with criminality.

 

[Quequeg]

I have faith that the American people won't stand for a leader making himself an untouchable king. We don't have those on this side of the ocean.

R or D, nobody should support this. Because next time it'll be the other guy getting away with criminality.

Trumptards(the shame of America) are incapable of thinking this far ahead.

 

[Fawlty]

I have faith that the American people won't stand for a leader making himself an untouchable king. We don't have those on this side of the ocean.

R or D, nobody should support this. Because next time it'll be the other guy getting away with criminality.

I'd like to think that, but what can the reply be if that happens? It would come down to public trust of Mueller, which seems strong right now but is politically precarious. We don't have the appropriate checks and balances for investigating the President, and he has the right to squash an investigation that is subverting the political process. There won't be ready proof of Trump's sabotage, and it might be done independently on his behalf. It's a strong tactic, I worry that it would work very well.

 

[SurferH2O]

he Leftists Media is abusing "anonymous sources".

Just last week, CNN claimed via an "anonymous source" that Cohen told them Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting. In that same report, in the very next sentence, the CNN "newsman" claimed that Cohen's lawyer, Lanny Davis, was "unavailable for comment". HE WAS THE ANONYMOUS SOURCE!!!!

Not only did they lie about the event, they lied about the Davis's availability. How was he "unavailable" if he was the source?

Here is proof that they lied, straight from their sources mouth. (Start watching at 1:17)

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I'd like to think that, but what can the reply be if that happens? It would come down to public trust of Mueller, which seems strong right now but is politically precarious. We don't have the appropriate checks and balances for investigating the President, and he has the right to squash an investigation that is subverting the political process. There won't be ready proof of Trump's sabotage, and it might be done independently on his behalf. It's a strong tactic, I worry that it would work very well.

Yah. People talk of a possible future Constitutional crisis, but IMO we're already there.
It's going to happen. You don't float firing the AG so far out ahead unless you fully plan to do it.
Sesh knows he's done. And it's ...interesting timing... now that Pap implicated him in lying to Congress.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

he Leftists Media is abusing "anonymous sources".

Just last week, CNN claimed via an "anonymous source" that Cohen told them Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting. In that same report, in the very next sentence, the CNN "newsman" claimed that Cohen's lawyer, Lanny Davis, was "unavailable for comment". HE WAS THE ANONYMOUS SOURCE!!!!

Not only did they lie about the event, they lied about the Davis's availability. How was he "unavailable" if he was the source?

Here is proof that they lied, straight from their sources mouth. (Start watching at 1:17)

Fox is fake news.

 

[waiguoren]

From what we know, the funding was from Cohen not Trump or the Trump org. Trump's personal attorney Giuliani has said this numerous times, he also said Trump paid Cohen back through a retainer, but that was AFTER the election, the whores were paid BEFORE the election. Trump can't be the source of funds when he didn't give any money before the money was transferred between Cohen and the whores.

Interesting point, but I don't think the timing is relevant. Cohen would not have paid Clifford without the understanding that Trump would reimburse him. In other words, Cohen wasn't doing a $130,000 favor for an old pal.


*Usual disclaimer: I don't accept that this is a "campaign contribution", but we need to assume that for this conversation to be interesting.

 

[Fawlty]

Yah. People talk of a possible future Constitutional crisis, but IMO we're already there.
It's going to happen. You don't float firing the AG so far out ahead unless you fully plan to do it.
Sesh knows he's done. And it's ...interesting timing... now that Pap implicated him in lying to Congress.

Over Sessions' Russian contacts, or a different lie?

Trump is going after Bloomberg for printing "off the record" comments by Trump. You have to wonder how many of these leaks to the press are Trump's doing. There have been times when I thought it was definitely Trump speaking to the press because they involved smaller high-level meetings where a leak should have been easy to find. And he would have been doing this concurrently with his railing about there being deep state leakers in his administration. That's a very Trumpish move.

 

[waiguoren]

lol There's nothing in there that suggests he's a Clinton associate.

Does this mean that Kellyanne Conway's husband that's always bashing Trump on twitter is a Trump associate? I just want to make sure this logic applies both ways.

That's a good criticism of the Breitbart headline, and thank you and @Rebound59 for making it. However, I found the content of the article interesting, particularly in light of reports that Veselnitskaya met with Glenn Simpson shortly before and shortly after the Trump Tower meeting.

 

[kahiljabroni]

These empty posts are funny, true

But eventually there will be enough to form an It Mountain and go skiing down its slopes with Donny Moscow and all his crooked friends.

Something may come out that's insurmountable for Trump I'll give you that. But as of yet it's been 100 nothing burgers piled on top of each other. And any number, no matter how large multiplied by zero, still equals zero..which is what they currently have.

I said several months ago that Trump should have shit canned Mueller, rosennuts, and sessions and deal with the blowback. Even if he was impeached, there'd be 0 chance of the Senate voting to remove him, and he could get this behind him.

 

[waiguoren]

You crack me up. Says the guy who literally posts videos and accompanying transcript of AD interviews.

Thanks for this comment.

I post Alan Dershowitz interviews and other materials to try to fill out some of the gaps I perceive in this thread. Please do not misunderstand: my posting of the views of others does not indicate that I endorse those views. Dershowitz is a bit of an exception: I do agree with perhaps 90% of Alan Dershowitz's views on the "Russia collusion" conspiracy theory and the Mueller probe.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Over Sessions' Russian contacts, or a different lie?

He's saying Sesh supported meeting with Vladdy.

(CNN)Convicted former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos has publicly contradicted Attorney General Jeff Sessions' sworn testimony to Congress, saying both Sessions and Donald Trump apparently supported his proposal that Trump meet with Vladimir Putin during the 2016 campaign, according to a court filing late Friday night.

Trump is going after Bloomberg for printing "off the record" comments by Trump. You have to wonder how many of these leaks to the press are Trump's doing. There have been times when I thought it was definitely Trump speaking to the press because they involved smaller high-level meetings where a leak should have been easy to find. And he would have been doing this concurrently with his railing about there being deep state leakers in his administration. That's a very Trumpish move.

I'm on record around here on that one. I've strongly suspected it's been Trump the whole time, or the closest people to him have been nearly-running faucets.

Thing that gets me is that he's so shameless in his projection, and attacking the integrity of anyone else. He's the biggest hypocrite snowflake in the United States and idiots gave him power because they detest snowflakes.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Something may come out that's insurmountable for Trump I'll give you that. But as of yet it's been 100 nothing burgers

Papadopoulos convicted

Manafort convicted after trial

General Flynn convicted

Cohen convicted

Sam Patten convicted

12 Russian spies charged

13 Russian Nationals charged

Rick Gates convicted

I've already predicted "It's not like he committed murder!" as a defense of DJT on this forum.

Your standards for presidential behavior are absurd.

 

[waiguoren]

Well, it's oddly coincidental that your points dovetail so well with what Trump's team is saying, be it Caputo or in print somewhere. Furthermore, I don't understand why you would be credulous to what Trump and his people are saying about this interview, or about anything at this point.

I don't know who Caputo is. As for my TV media diet regarding the Mueller probe: I'm watching Rachel Maddow on the MSNBC Youtube channel, PBS Newshour, Alan Dershowitz on CNN/Fox, Jay Goldberg on CNN, Chris Cuomo on CNN.

The fact is that he brought up "the Russia thing" as a total non sequitur

Not really. The media was throwing a fit immediately after the firing. Multiple panelists on the major TV news networks (most of which Trump himself seems to watch) were accusing the president of "obstruction of justice" in the immediate aftermath of the firing (the incompetent Jeffrey Toobin on CNN comes to mind). Trump went into the Holt interview knowing that he would have to address the elephant in the room. I thought he handled it pretty well, by Trump standards anyway.

The fact is that he brought up "the Russia thing" as a total non sequitur

when talking about why he wanted to fire Comey regardless of Rosenstein's recommendation, which countered everything his team was saying about how and why the firing happened.[/QUOTE]

I don't recall that Trump's team was saying Trump wouldn't have fired Comey if not for the Rosenstein recommendation.

Either way, it's not very important what his representatives told the press. The important thing is that we got the president's explanation straight from his mouth: he fired Comey for being an "incompetent grandstander" who had left the FBI "in turmoil."

Comey was a "grandstander" and "showboat" well before Trump was all hugs and kisses with him, something obviously changed,

I tend to agree with you here. It's pretty clear to me Trump didn't like his campaign being under investigation (understandable) to the point that he jumped the gun.

and Trump said why in the Holt interview, and to Kislyak and Lavrov in the White House. I mean come on, he said "I faced great pressure because of Russia, that's been taken off"

As I pointed out to another poster, your source for this is an almost totally redacted, unauthorized leak of a secret conversation by an anonymous source. We don't have context. It's not wise to take it seriously, in my opinion.