over under pass in mma?

[mcgoatp4p#1]

has anyone seen it done? i feel like it would work great as its perfectly transferable to no gi.

 

[Uchi Mata]

The problem with it is it exposes your head to strikes, it's hard to stay tight on, and it takes too long for timed rounds. Not to mention that you're not doing damage while trying to pass, which is really important for winning MMA fights. There's a reason most passing against open guards that you see are basically either smashing to half guard or just throwing the legs to the side before throwing a shot or two: you can do damage that way, and doing damage is what wins MMA fights, not passing guard.

 

[Stephan Kesting]

I seem to remember old black and white footage of a fight in Brazil where one fighter was trying an over under pass. He was also getting his face repeatedly pounded for a very long time because this pass does take a while to set up and execute. I don't think I've seen it in MMA since ...

 

[mcgoatp4p#1]

well that clears that up. didnt really think about the head placement

 

[kenpeters8]

I love the over/under pass in gi and no-gi. But I will never do that in a street fight. LOL!

 

[rickjamez]

I think in MMA people dont use stiff arms so much as people in jits do - so you can pass straight to halfguard. People use their arms to get up - or to block punches or to clinch you in hg to prevent you from punching.
Also when people do use stiff arms to prevent you from passing - you could just rain down punches and they remove their hands to block.

Another thing to worry about is up-kicks while going in for the over under.

I always wonder why many people in the UFC dont go for standing passes that much, they often just stand in front of the guy lying down.
for example rarely do I see legdrag style passes.

 

[thugpoet]

I think in MMA people dont use stiff arms so much as people in jits do - so you can pass straight to halfguard. People use their arms to get up - or to block punches or to clinch you in hg to prevent you from punching.
Also when people do use stiff arms to prevent you from passing - you could just rain down punches and they remove their hands to block.

Another thing to worry about is up-kicks while going in for the over under.

I always wonder why many people in the UFC dont go for standing passes that much, they often just stand in front of the guy lying down.
for example rarely do I see legdrag style passes.

Up kicks .

 

[Kenny from MD]

I would love to see someone effectively strike your head while being over under passed correctly.

 

[GKY]

While I'm sure the overunder pass would expose you to some shots I don't think they'd be powerful enough to do serious damage. Note this pass involves completely boxing their hips and immobilizing them. Sure they'll be able to punch you, but only arm punches at a weird angle.

I think the best point made was that it's a slow pass and you don't get points for passing, you get them for doing damage. MMA the rounds are so short and the ref is constantly threatening to stand you up for perceived inactivity.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I think in MMA people dont use stiff arms so much as people in jits do - so you can pass straight to halfguard. People use their arms to get up - or to block punches or to clinch you in hg to prevent you from punching.
Also when people do use stiff arms to prevent you from passing - you could just rain down punches and they remove their hands to block.

Another thing to worry about is up-kicks while going in for the over under.

I always wonder why many people in the UFC dont go for standing passes that much, they often just stand in front of the guy lying down.
for example rarely do I see legdrag style passes.

Upkicks bro. Pretty hard to grab a leg to drag when the guy can literally kick you in the face as soon as you get close enough to start the pass.

In general passing in MMA can't be separated from striking. Passing is just a lot less important than hitting the guy, and you can hit someone fine from top half or even squatting in closed guard ala Fedor. Frankly it's easier to do damage from top half than top side control in an MMA fight under unified rules where you can't knee the head. Mount or back are the best, but the time it takes to set those positions up when starting in guard (and the uncertainty that you'll even get to) means that it's generally a better idea to just do as much damage as possible with whatever time you have left in the round. The only exception is if you're so much better at BJJ than the other guy that you have a reasonable expectation that you'll be able to pass quickly and get to a truly dominant position fast ala Demian Maia (though he rarely has to pass guard really, his TDs flow into his mount and back takes so well that it's not like he's passing guard in space, he's half passed by the time he drags you down).

 

[mcgoatp4p#1]

While I'm sure the overunder pass would expose you to some shots I don't think they'd be powerful enough to do serious damage. Note this pass involves completely boxing their hips and immobilizing them. Sure they'll be able to punch you, but only arm punches at a weird angle.

I think the best point made was that it's a slow pass and you don't get points for passing, you get them for doing damage. MMA the rounds are so short and the ref is constantly threatening to stand you up for perceived inactivity.

how slow are we talking about? it may take some time to set up if you dont see an opening and you're really struggling for it, but if you see the space for it you should be able to enter immediately and pass in a number of seconds, at least if you're really proficient with the pass. i dont see why it should take longer than any other guard pass

 

[deadlizard]

Check out the GSP vs. Condit fight. I remembered GSP hit the over/under pass a couple of times against Condit.

Most of you guys that says your face will get hit on is thinking about the double underhook pass. In this case, Sakuraba did it against Royce when he used his gi to lift him.

 

[Anthas]

I do it all the time in mma sparring, but the fast "scully" way... A good oponent knows that it's more important to prevent the pass than to hit me with a weird and soft punch. They don't give you points for passing the guard, but you get closer to mount or knee on belly, which are superior striking positions in relation with half guard. Also you don't have to dive into the starting position and risk an upkick, you can use it once in half guard for example, or out of transitions or scrambles. Also I actually think that waiting for an upkick and diving in right after could be a pretty good set up...

 

[rickjamez]

Coming in for a legdrag with both hands just above the feet controlling the ankles/shins might be hard to upkick.
It seems a better choice to grab the shins/ankles than to just stand in front of the open guard - which is what i see happen in mma more often

but what do I know - I never train with upkicks

 

[dmwalking]

I think that the guard game in high level MMA is so poor that a good over/under passer could pass like butter. The punches will land, but they won't be significant, and they will open up the pass for the passer to pass easier.

I vote yes. I think it's doable if you speed it up.

 

[rmongler]

Tozi uber alles.