Opinions about Joe Calzaghe

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by The Guinness, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. The Guinness

    The Guinness Orange Belt

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    Over at Eastside boxing, I'd say about 80% of members HATE Joe Calzaghe! They blame him for not taking bigger fights earlier in his career.

    Since I'm still new, and there always seems to be a general consensus on a fighter in forum whether it's MMA or boxing, and wondering what it is here on Sherdog.

    Personally I think he's a great fighter. Firstly, it takes alot to go the whole career undefeated, no matter which opponents. Secondly, I think he tried hard to get bigger fights, for some reason America didn't accept him and didn't want to promote him over there.

    However, he did have some fights which on paper he really should have lost like against Lacy, Kessler and maybe Hopkins.

    I respect that in the end of his career he wanted some super-fights to end his career, and gave up titles and pretty much guaranteed wins and took the Kessler, Hopkins and Jones Jnr. fights.
     
  2. TheRainSong

    TheRainSong Purple Belt

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    He gets the job done....his record is proof.
     
  3. dust

    dust Yellow Belt

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    He conveniently retired before fighting Chad Dawson.
     
  4. HeavyD99

    HeavyD99 Orange Belt

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    He beat Eubanks, Lacy, B-Hop, and a less than stellar Roy. I don't see what people are bitching about. Lacy was in his prime, Eubanks was only 31, and B-Hop was coming off wins over Tarver, Winky, and later went on to beat Pavlik. RJJ obviously wasn't the same but dominating even a 2008 RJJ the way Joe did is pretty impressive IMO.
     
  5. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    He beat a past prime Eubanks, bum Lacy, past prime B-Hop, and past prime Roy..

    His biggest win was over a prime Mikkel Kesslar, and that was impressive.. The rest aren't..


    historically, Calzaghe is not important.. and it's because he chose not to come to the states and test himself earlier in his career when we had much better opponents who were prime available for him.
     
  6. Orisha

    Orisha White Belt

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    He slaps, but gets the job done.
     
  7. HeavyD99

    HeavyD99 Orange Belt

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    Typical Calzaghe basher, just label all his opponents as being past their prime without regard to the fact that some weren't old (Eubanks) and were coming off of their most successful performances (Bhop). Try telling Tarver, Winky, and Pavlik that Bhop was shot when he fought Joe.

    Joe's supporters can say the same thing. One of the reasons he slapped so much was because of the numerous hand injuries later in his career. They can easily make the arguement that Joe was "past his prime" when he beat Hopkins and RJJ. And of course why should he have to move up in weight to fight a relative no name like Chad Dawson if he was past his best.

    The idea that he "ducked" Dawson is laughable. Put yourself in his place. You're undefeated but injury prone at 36 years old and have just made the two biggest paydays of your career vs Hopkins and Jones. Why would you wanna risk your record and status by moving up in weight to fight a young champion that only hardcore fans are familiar with. He would have made much more money rematching Hopkins.

    Btw I don't recall any Americans calling Lacy a bum back in 2006 before Joe humiliated him.
     
  8. consortium11

    consortium11 Slip The Jab

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    To quote myself from an earlier Calzaghe thread:

     
  9. Thunder Gatti

    Thunder Gatti <img src="http://www.cdn.sherdog.net/forums/images

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    The thing is the guy is right, Joe fought a lot of fighters on their decline, he was smart, in the UK he was hailed upon until his coke addiction came to light and his rubbishing of Hatton and Khan.
    I'm a Brit, I generally like Joe but face facts anyone who came close to beating him or he scored a split win, he wouldn't rematch them and his excuse was idiotic I don't do rematches, he only give one fighter Mario Viet a rematch in 47 fights, pretty poor IMO. Plus he was KNOWN for dropping out of fights late with poor excuses, all this hurt his career IMO.
    In Boxing History Joe could come out of retirement and go 50-0 and retire again and no one would remember him out of the UK/Europe, because that was his home base for fights and he only went after the big fights in the twilight of his career, he was content to fight in the UK and Europe for the most part against boxers who were either on the decline or his style was awkward for them.
    The only reason Joe went to America was because Hopkins wouldn't come here to defend his RING LHW belt and the RJJ fight was at MSG something that eluded Joe's career a fight in MSG, and even that fight the Jones Jr, Joe had it in the contact if he lost Jones Jr had to rematch him in Wales.

    The thing is in 20 years time people will look at his record and see he beat great fighters they'll not take into consideration that they were on the decline, kind of like Oscar fought great fighters who were on the decline, it's the nature of the beast, good match making, regardless if they were in the prime or not Joe has wins over quality boxers.
     
  10. Cracky

    Cracky Fanny Pack

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    Tarver was nearly 2 years prior to the cal fight. WInky was nearly one year prior. For a man over 40, that is a significant gap, and Behop still nearly defeated Cal... and Behop looked great against a guy that was tailor made for him in Pavlik. Bhop could fight that guy 5 years from now and still win..

    the people he has trouble with are guys with lightening reflexes like Jermain Taylor and Calzaghe.. and he has trouble with those guys because he is not quick enough to use superior knowledge on them at this point in his fading career..

    He needs opponents that are slow enough for him to react to in order to be effective.. and the list of the opponents that fit that description is growing thinner and thinner.


    Also, Eubanks lost 2 fights before Cal and then 2 times directly after Cal.. that was not a prime Eubanks..




    Cal vs. Lacy was an example of a prime Cal. I have seen footage of him at various points in his career, and that was as good as he ever was.. and the night he beat Kesslar reinforced that he was at his apex. He was prime.

    BTW.. see Lacy vs. Vanderpool and Lacy vs. SHieka.. That man was proven to be an overhyped fighter by that time and his only chance at beating Cal that the americans were giving him was based off of the fact that he hit hard and Cal had a suspect chin... on skill alone, it was as one sided as it could be. Seeing what Cal did to Shieka in comparison would tell anyone with any sense that Lacy's only shot was a punchers chance.




    Cal had a chance to prove himself.. he could have fought Steve Collins, a prime Roy Jones, perhaps even James Toney.. all in the mid - late 90's when he was getting into rough scraps with bums like Robin Ried instead.

    and now he could be proving himself in the super six, but he chose to play it safe and that is why he gets criticism.

    Does anybody credit Holmes for his beating of Ali? nah not really... he simply finished off a shot fighter with a name.. and that is what Cal has been struggling to imitate.
     
  11. enswell****

    enswell**** Blue Belt

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    Calzaghe didn't always slap; he used to knock peoples' brains out but his hands went bad on him.
    He had to totally change his style and become a volume-puncher and cardio machine winning on points.
    Deserves credit for that too for adapting and learning a new way to get the job done.

    Pacquiao's the only guy that can fight a furious unrelenting pace for 12 rds the way Calzaghe did. The pace is just incredible.
    Before the Lacy demolition, people (and commentators) were acting like Lacy had it in the bag, like longtime Champ Joe was simply gonna get crushed.

    After the 1st 3 rds of Joe lighting up Lacy with that fast pace, Lacy's cornerman was reassuring Lacy that Calzaghe's gonna get tired now, that he can't keep up that pace.
    That was funny because Joe kept up that pace for 12 full rds.

    Joe destroyed Lacy in that fight; he ruined him.
    Finished him as a fighter.


    It's hard to rank Calzaghe.
    Certainly the man could really fight and he was damn good...but just how good was he?

    If you don't fight the best available opponents, it's hard to define just how good someone is, like maywetaher has done for 9 years, and even Joe's fans know he didn't fight the best when they were at their best like in the Roy Jones fight for example.

    The Jones fight should have happened in 1998, '99 or 2000, not 2008.
    However, Calzaghe in 2008 wasn't the same as he was in 1998 either.
    Maybe he would have knocked Jones' brains out back then when Joe could still really crack. No Cal-slappy back then, and when Jones reflexes finally slowed down a bit, we found out Jones chin wasn't the best.

    It's a great matchup that happened too late.

    .
     
  12. enswell****

    enswell**** Blue Belt

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    The guy I wanted to see Calzaghe fight was Glencoffe Johnson.
    I love watching a good pressure-fighter.

    The fight was scheduled and postponed a few times over Calzaghe's injuries or something, I don't remember exactly, but the fight never did come off.
    Really it's because Joe recognized the danger Johnson posed in about 2004 or thereabouts and mayweathered him.


    Glen's letter to Joe in 2008:

    ___________________________________________

    Dear Joe,

    Congratulations on your win over Roy Jones last Saturday night. I
     
  13. JayOliver

    JayOliver Green Belt

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    Zags and his people were good at managing his talents into a pretty good commodity. Definitely a very good career but he shouldn't be remembered as a guy who went out of his way to achieve greatness or fight the best.

    I will give him some dap for his wins over Lacy and Kessler... can't take that away from him. He fought B-Hop and RJJ too late to be given a whole lot of credit for those performances though and as mentioned there were several high risk/low reward fights that he left on the table when he retired.
     
  14. JerseyRob

    JerseyRob Brown Belt

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    You are right from a business sense it may have not made much sense BUT Dawson offered a 80-20 split and to come over the pond and fight in his homeland. If you really want to shut up the "American" naysayers and prove you are one of the greats you take that fight. The guy is a HOF but there are too many obvious signs of him dropping out of certain fights and hand picking his opponents through the years.
     
  15. JerseyRob

    JerseyRob Brown Belt

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    There is a big difference. Yes Oscar fought some guys on the decline early in his career but that's part of the business you build young guys up by having them beat big names. Oscar De La Hoya THEN ANSWERED THE BELL AND WENT ON TO HAVE THE MOST IMPRESSIVE FIGHT CARD OF THE PAST 20 years and maybe of all time.

    Shane Mosley (Prime twice)
    Hopkins (Prime)
    Ike Quartey (Prime)
    Floyd Mayweather (Prime)
    Manny Pacquio (Prime)
    Tito (Prime)
    Vargas (Beaten but still very tough and roided)
    Sweet Pea (Decline but still better than most)

    I hate Oscar but when you look at modern day negotiations you could have made an argument that he pretty much didn't duck anybody once he became the star of boxing. He fought BOTH Ike, and Tito when really he probably could have avoided one of them. He fought Mosley when he didn't have to but Shane practically begged him. Vargas trash talks him and he answers the call. THERE WAS NO REASON HE HAD TO FIGHT HOPKINS AND TO THIS DAY I HAVE NO IDEA WHY HE DID THAT. Then he fought Floyd and yes may have took every advantage he could but that's just being smart and what you can do when you draw like him. The guy was the meal ticket of boxing and for the next few years as more Floyd-Pac situations occur I think people will appreciate what he did for the sport.
     
  16. Boxer Rebellion

    Boxer Rebellion Blue Belt

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    You are correct, Calzaghe was an overrated slap-fighter.

    His best wins were against past-prime fighters.

    I doubt he is going to rank very high in historical lists.
     
  17. Boxer Rebellion

    Boxer Rebellion Blue Belt

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    Agree it's become the fashion lately to hate on Oscar but he has put himself out there.

    His fights against a drugged-up Mosely also look more impressive now that mosley has admitted to being "artificially enhanced" for those fights.
     
  18. brian13

    brian13 Brown Belt

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    Very overprotected, was more focussed on keeping the undefeated record than fighting the best guys in the World
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  19. cocksure

    cocksure Silver Belt

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    Remind you of anyone?
     
  20. Thunder Gatti

    Thunder Gatti <img src="http://www.cdn.sherdog.net/forums/images

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    Dude I'm a huge Oscar fan no need to give me the Oscar history lesson I already know this, I'm pointing out that Oscar fought guys past their prime in his career to build him up, every top notch boxer does this, I'm just simply pointing out Joe did this at the back end of his career, Oscar challenged himself on more then one occasion when he didn't need to and the Hopkins fight was because he wanted to move up in weight, he beat Stren in a questionable decision in June that set up the Hopkins fight for all the belts, and lost, Oscar went for the big fights and big names and ANYONE who discredits him is a fucking moron period.

    Joe Calzaghe on the other hand was comfortable fighting easier guys making decent money building himself up a sweet looking 47-0 but realistically he didn't start fighting dangerous guys until Lacy who was greatly over hyped anyway and the only 2 fights of Joe's career I consider impressive were the Eubanks fight and Kessler. People can say Eubanks was past his prime that could be true but he had only lost
    Steve Collins twice, no shame in that and took the Joe Cal fight in 10 days notice. Kessler had the hype of the next big star ready to break out in America and Joe nulled him, apart from them I don't think Joe's career has many impressive highlights in it, he beat Hopkins and Jones Jr? Hopkins IMO won the fight and Jones Jr is a shell of his former self and questionable decisions that went Joes way he would bark at the rematch talk (Reid and Hopkins in particular).
     

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