Oliveira hasn't improved that much, he's just on a very good streak

His stand up is better, his heart is better, and comparing throwing dice to fighting is kind of a weird comparison sir.
That is where the argument lost me. Dice is chance. Fighting is hours of grueling hours spent in the gym. Significant improvements can be made with dedication and training.. that’s hardly chance.
 
He has improved. Khabib isn't around so we can't compare the two but that's not fair for Charles because he is around. I believe he is the best version of himself. Mentally he's at his best and that's his greatest weapon
 
That is where the argument lost me. Dice is chance. Fighting is hours of grueling hours spent in the gym. Significant improvements can be made with dedication and training.. that’s hardly chance.

He is trying to get a ride out of people.
I gave examples and he still said Charles hasn't gotten better lol.
 
There's a common misconception that just because a fighter begins to find success consistently by entering a meaningful streak that they must somehow be better than they were before, or that because someone begins to lose they must have 'lost a step'. After all, if they are winning more and reaching the top, they must be better than were they were losing and performing inconsistently!

This is generally true but not always. Sometimes it is just a matter of probability reflecting a tendency that in the grand scheme does not affect the total distribution. If I am throwing dice 1v1 and I start getting higher numbers over a 10 throw toss that doesn't mean I suddenly got better at throwing dice or that I am more likely to win the next throw. Same if were to lose; it doesn't mean I am suddenly worse at throwing dice or that it is more likely I will get a 4 and my opponent a 6.

Is Oliveira better than he used to be? One might be inclined to use his success against top dogs lately as undeniable proof for that. But this by itself would be presumptuous. And I just don't see where in this case Oliveira has improved.

He has always had very aggressive and dynamic jitz, crafty at finding openings from scrambles and hustling from position, even if not graceful. He has great cardio, good power, is flexible, lanky, tough, durable, good at scrambling for position and finding openings, fantastic from his back, and throws strikes from weird angles. In some respects, he reminds me of Ferguson. And he has always had the same weaknesses; sloppy technique with his boxing, which leaves him often prone to getting hit a lot, not the best takedown defense, prone to being overwhelmed by pressure.

Has he been more consistently successful against top competition? Undeniably.

Is he better than he was? Sure, he's much better than he was in his debut. But his recent success does not designate a paradigm shift in his skillset. I think it is a similar situation than with Ferguson. It is rare, and more bound to occur with someone who is durable and gritty, and resourceful at finding avenues to victory. All of which Oliveira has, and has always had, in spades. Or Werdum. But I think the same will happen with him that happened with Ferg. The streak will end, because of the same weaknesses being reflected and suddenly everyone will say "oh now he's past his prime!".
Agree but Tony was in fact out of his prime. Just happened to get matched up against washed-up or middling competition, so he racked up a few more wins until he ran into a legit buzzsaw in Gaethje.
 
There's a common misconception that just because a fighter begins to find success consistently by entering a meaningful streak that they must somehow be better than they were before, or that because someone begins to lose they must have 'lost a step'. After all, if they are winning more and reaching the top, they must be better than were they were losing and performing inconsistently!

This is generally true but not always. Sometimes it is just a matter of probability reflecting a tendency that in the grand scheme does not affect the total distribution. If I am throwing dice 1v1 and I start getting higher numbers over a 10 throw toss that doesn't mean I suddenly got better at throwing dice or that I am more likely to win the next throw. Same if were to lose; it doesn't mean I am suddenly worse at throwing dice or that it is more likely I will get a 4 and my opponent a 6.

Is Oliveira better than he used to be? One might be inclined to use his success against top dogs lately as undeniable proof for that. But this by itself would be presumptuous. And I just don't see where in this case Oliveira has improved.

He has always had very aggressive and dynamic jitz, crafty at finding openings from scrambles and hustling from position, even if not graceful. He has great cardio, good power, is flexible, lanky, tough, durable, good at scrambling for position and finding openings, fantastic from his back, and throws strikes from weird angles. In some respects, he reminds me of Ferguson. And he has always had the same weaknesses; sloppy technique with his boxing, which leaves him often prone to getting hit a lot, not the best takedown defense, prone to being overwhelmed by pressure.

Has he been more consistently successful against top competition? Undeniably.

Is he better than he was? Sure, he's much better than he was in his debut. But his recent success does not designate a paradigm shift in his skillset. I think it is a similar situation than with Ferguson. It is rare, and more bound to occur with someone who is durable and gritty, and resourceful at finding avenues to victory. All of which Oliveira has, and has always had, in spades. Or Werdum. But I think the same will happen with him that happened with Ferg. The streak will end, because of the same weaknesses being reflected and suddenly everyone will say "oh now he's past his prime!".

What a fucking terrible opinion man. How do people like you post about MMA for 20 fucking years and hold opinions like this? I question how that even is possible, if youre not trolling.
 
While I think TS has a point in highlighting how flawed and stupid the deterministic take "he's winning = he's better than when he lost" is and I'm glad someone is saying this, I think in Oliveira's case this doesn't fully apply, as he has made technical improvements in striking and wrestling, and has filled his frame a bit which makes him stronger and have more pop in his strikes.

I also think a lot of what makes a fighter succesful is in conficende, headspace and belief in the gameplan, and only victories can fuel that, so I think that the win streak is both a consequence and a cause of his improvement.
 
There's a common misconception that just because a fighter begins to find success consistently by entering a meaningful streak that they must somehow be better than they were before, or that because someone begins to lose they must have 'lost a step'. After all, if they are winning more and reaching the top, they must be better than were they were losing and performing inconsistently!

This is generally true but not always. Sometimes it is just a matter of probability reflecting a tendency that in the grand scheme does not affect the total distribution. If I am throwing dice 1v1 and I start getting higher numbers over a 10 throw toss that doesn't mean I suddenly got better at throwing dice or that I am more likely to win the next throw. Same if were to lose; it doesn't mean I am suddenly worse at throwing dice or that it is more likely I will get a 4 and my opponent a 6.

Is Oliveira better than he used to be? One might be inclined to use his success against top dogs lately as undeniable proof for that. But this by itself would be presumptuous. And I just don't see where in this case Oliveira has improved.

He has always had very aggressive and dynamic jitz, crafty at finding openings from scrambles and hustling from position, even if not graceful. He has great cardio, good power, is flexible, lanky, tough, durable, good at scrambling for position and finding openings, fantastic from his back, and throws strikes from weird angles. In some respects, he reminds me of Ferguson. And he has always had the same weaknesses; sloppy technique with his boxing, which leaves him often prone to getting hit a lot, not the best takedown defense, prone to being overwhelmed by pressure.

Has he been more consistently successful against top competition? Undeniably.

Is he better than he was? Sure, he's much better than he was in his debut. But his recent success does not designate a paradigm shift in his skillset. I think it is a similar situation than with Ferguson. It is rare, and more bound to occur with someone who is durable and gritty, and resourceful at finding avenues to victory. All of which Oliveira has, and has always had, in spades. Or Werdum. But I think the same will happen with him that happened with Ferg. The streak will end, because of the same weaknesses being reflected and suddenly everyone will say "oh now he's past his prime!".
I'm not so sure his actual skill-set has improved a ton, but his game-plan and understanding of how to use his skills has definitely improved. His in fight composure has also drastically improved, which I believe to be the most important aspect of his recent success.

He's always had great skills and has been incredibly dangerous, I just don't think before he fully understood how to maximize his potential and now he does.

War Charlie Olives!
 
How about this: fuck you, and your mom, and your grandmother, and all of your ancestors.

Please calm down sherbro, let's not turn this into a hostage situation
 
seems like do bronx has actually improved everywhere. His takedowns are much better than in the past. His striking seems much better, he even seems physically stronger and looks thicker.
 
His stand-up is absolutely light years above where it used to be, he's also much physically stronger now than he used to be and his mindset seems to have completely changed.

Olives now would whoop Olives of 5 years ago.
On point
I would just add the confidence hes got now. It means hell of a lot.
 
This is ridiculous, and an absolute mountain of shit of a thread.

Oliveira has shown tremendous improvement on his feet, gameplanning, and strength and conditioning. He used to walk forward throwing sloppy 1-2s in search for the takedown; now he lays back, throws combinations, long hooks, picks his shots, uses his elbows and knees in the pocket to apply pressure. He is far more dynamic, accurate, and mature as a fighter. His success recently has been completely based around his capacity to time and pick his shots better, in addition to using his aready excellent jitz to scramble for position and find submissions.

Anyone with a pair of eyes and a functioning brain can see this, and it amazes me that someone who has been in this forum for this long cannot see it.
 
The more you work, the luckier you get kind of situation.
 
How much should you improve when you're 32-8 and finished 29 of those wins?

Even the majority of his losses were against studs.

Charles is a beast, always has been, just never got any play.
 
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