Xbox Official Xbox thread

Of course not. The plan was to make everything exclusive in 2021.

Personally I think starfield was the wake up call. A massively hyped “game of the generation” that didn’t move subscription numbers at all, they cancelled that one for the ps5 when it was already in development. I think they didn’t want to make that mistake again with doom
 
Personally I think starfield was the wake up call. A massively hyped “game of the generation” that didn’t move subscription numbers at all, they cancelled that one for the ps5 when it was already in development. I think they didn’t want to make that mistake again with doom

Could have been. I honestly think a lot of things came together to put them in this situation. When the buyout of ABK started and when it finally ended Xbox was in a completely different position. They had great console sales ahead of the Xbox one and GP was growing quickly. By the time the deal was closed. Xbox Series consoles had dipped below Xbox one and they stopped announcing numbers for GP.

I think MS just finally said enough and started making changes. I don't care what anyone says I don't believe for a second GP is profitable. I'm sure Phil can make that claim playing fancy number games but I don't believe it for one second. All we hear is the industry struggling because of game development cost but yet MS has somehow made offering people all their games and 3rd party games for $10-15 a month profitable? BS.
 
I think MS just finally said enough and started making changes. I don't care what anyone says I don't believe for a second GP is profitable. I'm sure Phil can make that claim playing fancy number games but I don't believe it for one second. All we hear is the industry struggling because of game development cost but yet MS has somehow made offering people all their games and 3rd party games for $10-15 a month profitable? BS.
I don't see what's so hard to believe. Streaming platforms in general are successful. You got Netflix, Amazon, etc, spending hundreds of millions of dollars on original content, and they're giving it away for a monthly fee all the same.

The subscription model in general is successful, because, at least in theory, you have steady revenue flow forever from millions of people, rather than a one and done sale.

Now, where it does hurt them, is in console sales. Most games on GP come to the cloud as well, so why would anyone spend a thousand dollars on a new machine to play next gen games, when they can play them on any old hardware through the cloud?
 
I don't see what's so hard to believe. Streaming platforms in general are successful. You got Netflix, Amazon, etc, spending hundreds of millions of dollars on original content, and they're giving it away for a monthly fee all the same.

The subscription model in general is successful, because, at least in theory, you have steady revenue flow forever from millions of people, rather than a one and done sale.

Now, where it does hurt them, is in console sales. Most games on GP come to the cloud as well, so why would anyone spend a thousand dollars on a new machine to play next gen games, when they can play them on any old hardware through the cloud?
Netflix, Amazon, Paramount, Disney+ all have higher sub numbers. On top of that Disney+ doesn't even make money but is projected to do that at the end of this year. Last I read only Hulu, WB discovery, and Netflix have managed to make money in streaming services. Paramount+ and Disney+ are expected to turn a profit soon.

GP doesn't just hurt their console sales with cloud gaming. It's also hurting their software sales across the board. They are teaching their customers to just wait for games to come to GP.
 
Netflix, Amazon, Paramount, Disney+ all have higher sub numbers. On top of that Disney+ doesn't even make money but is projected to do that at the end of this year. Last I read only Hulu, WB discovery, and Netflix have managed to make money in streaming services. Paramount+ and Disney+ are expected to turn a profit soon.

GP doesn't just hurt their console sales with cloud gaming. It's also hurting their software sales across the board. They are teaching their customers to just wait for games to come to GP.
Disney spent around $33.75bn on content in 2023. Not all of that is for Disney+, some is for the movies, and also ESPN+/Hulu, but without doing deeper searching, their world box office gross 7 months into 2023 was $3.4 billion. So almost all of their revenue is coming from streaming.

Meanwhile, Spencer has said they spend just over a paltry $1bn/yr on Gamepass, in comparison, and Xbox's latest reported figure is 34 million GP subscribers. Microsoft's gaming division alone earned between $15bn-$17bn in total revenue per year the last three years. The department to which the gaming division belongs has an operating income of between $15bn-$21bn during these years, and in the most recent year, it was just over $16bn. Noted in 2023's financial report:
Gaming revenue decreased $764 million or 5% driven by declines in Xbox hardware and Xbox content and services. Xbox hardware revenue decreased 11% driven by lower volume and price of consoles sold. Xbox content and services revenue decreased 3% driven by a decline in first-party content, offset in part by growth in Xbox Game Pass.
Where Microsoft is flailing is in moving hardware, and that has triggered the change to extend more software published to other platforms. The Xbox has fallen all the way to the about a 1:2 ratio versus the PS5, and now the Steam Deck is encroaching on their headway into the PC market by offering a Steamstore-specific device.


If you Playstation guys want to discuss exclusivity, bad Xbox sales, Game Pass profitablity, and all this other stuff, go chat it up in my Gaming Services thread, or the Console Wars thread. Even the old Zenimax or Activision-Blizzard acquisition threads are more appropriate. Feel free to quote posts from the above derail in those threads to continue the discussion if you're preoccupied with this stuff.
 
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The folks at PlayStation are gonna have to have a serious conversation”: Even Kratos’ Creator Himself, God of War’s David Jaffe, Couldn’t Get Over the Strength of the Xbox Games Showcase​


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The God of War creator is fascinated by the Xbox Showcase.








 

The folks at PlayStation are gonna have to have a serious conversation”: Even Kratos’ Creator Himself, God of War’s David Jaffe, Couldn’t Get Over the Strength of the Xbox Games Showcase​


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The God of War creator is fascinated by the Xbox Showcase.









This dude just says whatever the fuck he thinks is going to get him attention on social media. Hasn’t been relevant in forever. He is salty that god of war was successful without him. I like both versions of Kratos personally. I’m grateful he made the character but ever since that he’s basically done nothing but make controversial statements for engagement. Kind of sad really as he burned a lot of bridges being this way
 
This dude just says whatever the fuck he thinks is going to get him attention on social media. Hasn’t been relevant in forever. He is salty that god of war was successful without him. I like both versions of Kratos personally. I’m grateful he made the character but ever since that he’s basically done nothing but make controversial statements for engagement

You're missing the point.

You can now pay $70 for ONE game or pay $15 a month for darn near the entire Xbox X/S library.

It's a no-brainer.
 
You're missing the point.

You can now pay $70 for ONE game or pay $15 a month for darn near the entire Xbox X/S library.

It's a no-brainer.
I spend around 1000 dollars a year on games. I realize that’s quite a bit but I like buying games rather than renting. I recognize the value but there’s just something special about ownership. Also think it’s not healthy for the industry at large if more people go subscription method
 
I spend around 1000 dollars a year on games. I realize that’s quite a bit but I like buying games rather than renting. I recognize the value but there’s just something special about ownership. Also think it’s not healthy for the industry at large if more people go subscription method

You can still purchase the games if you wish.
 
I spend around 1000 dollars a year on games. I realize that’s quite a bit but I like buying games rather than renting. I recognize the value but there’s just something special about ownership. Also think it’s not healthy for the industry at large if more people go subscription method
Why?

You better get used to it, because consoles are going away. The tech is at a point where you don't need them. And that's right now. 10 years from now, Sony and Microsoft will just be offering subscription fees for their games, as they can and will all be streamed through apps on your TV. They can't wait to stop spending billions of dollars on the manufacturing costs of consoles.
 
You can still purchase the games if you wish.
Sure but most people aren’t going to as we’ve seen with companies releasing data on sales by console. Take Tekken 8 for example. 50 percent total sales on PlayStation and an abysmal 8 percent on Xbox consoles. Sony is outselling 2 to 1 but not 6 to 1 which indicates Gamepass has changed spending habits . I just don’t think it’s good for the future. I’m not convinced the quality of games will remain and it will be more about pumping out context as quick as possible. They rushed Redfall for that reason.
 
Sure but most people aren’t going to as we’ve seen with companies releasing data on sales by console. Take Tekken 8 for example. 50 percent total sales on PlayStation and an abysmal 8 percent on Xbox consoles. Sony is outselling 2 to 1 but not 6 to 1 which indicates Gamepass has changed spending habits . I just don’t think it’s good for the future. I’m not convinced the quality of games will remain and it will be more about pumping out context as quick as possible. They rushed Redfall for that reason.

I don't expect them to make the same mistake twice. Xbox is a huge part of a gargantuan business. They didn't get that way by failing upwards. I think that Xbox will be fine. Especially if they can deliver on what they showed.
 
The subscription model in general is successful, because, at least in theory, you have steady revenue flow forever from millions of people, rather than a one and done sale.
From what I’ve heard and read, the subscription model isn’t sustainable, for tv and movies at least, because of every company’s need to constant growth in order to always increase stock prices (which is all anyone cares about these days).

So you’ll notice there is more stuff being offered on streaming services with commercials these days. And I think it’s because subscribers are ultimately finite. And you can’t continue raising the subscription fee because there is enough competition, and overlap in terms of content, that people will just cancel your service.
So what they’re finding out is that the way things used to be, when most of the networks’ revenue came from ads, was actually working really well. Ad space is not finite. And they probably have more wiggle room as to what they can charge for that space, and are able to increase prices as needed.

So I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually see streaming services mirror cable and satellite tv services in the future, in that there will be more ad space sold, and the ads will be unavoidable. The only difference will be how the content is delivered - streaming instead of broadcast.
 
From what I’ve heard and read, the subscription model isn’t sustainable, for tv and movies at least, because of every company’s need to constant growth in order to always increase stock prices (which is all anyone cares about these days).

So you’ll notice there is more stuff being offered on streaming services with commercials these days. And I think it’s because subscribers are ultimately finite. And you can’t continue raising the subscription fee because there is enough competition, and overlap in terms of content, that people will just cancel your service.
So what they’re finding out is that the way things used to be, when most of the networks’ revenue came from ads, was actually working really well. Ad space is not finite. And they probably have more wiggle room as to what they can charge for that space, and are able to increase prices as needed.

So I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually see streaming services mirror cable and satellite tv services in the future, in that there will be more ad space sold, and the ads will be unavoidable. The only difference will be how the content is delivered - streaming instead of broadcast.
That's not a sustainability issue. Guaranteed revenue is the most sustainable thing in the world. Costs exceeding revenue isn't inherent, and the need to grow subscribers isn't inherently required. All the entertainment companies are prioritizing growth because they're in a footrace to claim as much of a global market share as possible before the market is saturated, fully matured, and they sort out how much milk the cows are going/willing to produce. Then they'll adjust their expenditures needle depending on how much of the pie they sliced for themselves.

Commercials aren't necessary. They're just greedy businessmen. Why turn down free money? As soon as cable & OTA broadcasting were pushed out as relevant competitors, they started putting commercials into the baseline tiers. They'll always do this. Not because it's necessary to be profitable, but because why on earth would you as a businessman forego a revenue stream? But on the other hand, no, there's no reason they will take away more expensive ad-free tiers. Technology afforded them this new option. In the past, everyone received the same signal. You couldn't customize an ad-filled broadcast for one consumer, and an ad-free one for another. Now they can. The closest thing that used to exist for this was the premium channels like HBO/Showtime to which only a portion of cable users subscribed. Those always had a place in cable. And ad-free tiers will always have a place, now.

The question of Game Pass viability isn't about sustainability. All reported profit/revenues indicate it is profitable, and therefore sustainable. The question is of opportunity cost. In other words, would they make more money if they used the alternative, older model of just selling games rather than a subscription service. We'll see. For TV, and movies, this question has been answered. Subscription services are more profitable. But video games aren't TV or movies. Games cost a lot more than movies: $70 vs. $25. But, unlike movies, which can be easily consumed in a matter of hours, many games will be played by gamers for dozens or even hundreds of hours. So, as a consumer, if you only play one or two games a year, or sometimes for many years, then it can make more sense to just buy the games, especially if you wait 6-18 months for the games to go on sale, than to shuck out $15/mo for a vastly greater value that you never actually tap.

Because it was never about Game Pass "cannibalizing sales". What a silly, ignorant concern. It's about revenue. If a developer makes more combined money through what Microsoft pays them for putting the game on the service, plus whatever they sell, then why would they care if they sold fewer total units? Especially if the subscription models means they're growing their base of actual players interested in their IP. That's future revenue.
 
To add to the above, let's be real. If Sony came out tomorrow and said they were adopting the day-1 model for all their games at GP's current subscription pricing the Playstation fanboys who always invade these Xbox threads to neg would be creaming themselves. They'd call it the greatest win for gamers in gaming history. Most of their opinions are firmly couched in a fanboy camp mindset.

But this also conveys a deeper truth. Game Pass is a business model. It doesn't matter how good a business model may be, and it's not clear how good it is for gaming, yet, that won't matter if you don't have a product worth selling. They have been getting beat up in terms of gamer sentiment towards major AAA properties the past four years. If it's going to succeed, then they need to put out stronger games. Perhaps this most recent Showcase foreshadows that future.

All of that aside, consider one thing I wrote above for those who root against Game Pass: the price of movies vs. games. I go on Amazon today, and the Blu-Ray for Dune 2 is $25. That's nothing. That's so reasonable. Why? Because Netflix and the streaming services forced the proud studios in Hollywood to come back to earth. You see, that's actually less than what they were charging for the DVDs for the hottest movie properties 25 years ago. Prices were spiraling out of control, and it was driving consumers bonkers. By the late 90's, the most popular DVD's were being sold for up to $34.99 at places like Wal-Mart, Circuit City, Best Buy, Blockbuster, etc. Costco was the cheap place you'd go to get them for $20. But $25-$30 was pretty normal.

Adjusted for inflation, $25 in 1999 would be $48 today. $35 would be $67. The success of the subscription services is what drove these prices down. Same thing happened with Napster, YouTube, and Spotify to the cost of CDs in the music industry.

Only a fanboy camp mindset would cause someone to root against so much greater value afforded to consumers, and an uncontained delight in speculation that "it isn't profitable". Why do you care? You going on vacation with their competitors's money? It causes laymen to be eager to root against themselves. I find it so odd.
 
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