Official Women's Division Discussion #27

[Rizz]

Bellator

Spoiler: Bellator

Razor thin close fight between Velasquez & Keilholtz. Sherdog writer had it Keilholtz 1, 2 & 5. I had it Velasquez 2, 3 & 4. Judges gave Velasquez the split decision. Velasquez fought with more precision & did more apparent damage. Keilholtz landed more strikes and was more the aggressor. Interested in how anyone else scored it. As always, not interested in arguing lol!

My new sleep times are not conducive to watching the fights so I missed it. From what I see other people say its not worth going back and watching. Would you say its worth a watch? Hopefully I can fight off the tiredness for Miesha.

 

[PurpleStorm]

My new sleep times are not conducive to watching the fights so I missed it. From what I see other people say its not worth going back and watching. Would you say its worth a watch? Hopefully I can fight off the tiredness for Miesha.

Sure, if you're motivated or want to judge it yourself. Good sleep is more valuable. Enjoy the weekend.

 

[Kuksenkov]

Do we think Dayana Silva was overlooked by those who didn't know her, and Bellator was right to pit her against the #1 and #2 fighters back to back? Or did she exceed expectations and did not meet her intended purpose (be an easy win for Budd and Blencowe)?

She had no business going into a split decision with Julia Budd, yet she did, and she was having a fairly competitive fight against Arlene Blencowe too. We might be seeing Silva vs Sorenson for Pam's debut. No easy fights for Dayana.

On the other hand, I'm glad Blencowe is back on the winning column. She continues to prove she's just a level beneath the true elites of Featherweight (Amanda, Cris, Marloes), but dangerous for anyone else, including Budd. How I wish she'd join UFC's bantamweight division, where she should be because she's not a true featherweight.

 

[Rizz]

I lost the war vs sleep. Can anyone give a summary of the Tate fight please?

 

[aerius]

Avsaragova fight and the main event were surprisingly similar; taller fighter puts punches down the middle and circles away to a split decision win. Not the most exciting fights, but it's actually nice to see some defensive responsibility for once instead of sloppy punch trading. The pivot out and reset away from the power hand was money for both Diana and Juliana, I was surprised that the same move made Kielholtz miss so many times considering how much experience she has as a kickboxer.

Still hard to say where Lemos is at since she keeps finishing everyone early, plus her opponent ran face first at her. Seems to have good accuracy and speed since she hit Ruiz multiple times on the way down, but we'll need a better opponent to get a feel for her skills. Maybe put her against Hill, Jandiroba, or Waterson next.

I lost the war vs sleep. Can anyone give a summary of the Tate fight please?

They punched each other in the face, then Tate eventually got the takedown and pounded her out. I'd say Tate look about the same as she did when she left, she can do some basic striking but once she gets touched up she starts swinging wild and goes for the takedowns. Tate still doesn't have much defence, but that's probably not going to be too much of a problem until she matches one of the top 5.

 

[Rizz]

In honor of Miesha winning here is a nice little video they made for her comeback.

 

[Gio]

 

[Nintendomark]

Looks like she is still pissed about the stoppage, lol. It might have been a tad early, was switching back and forth between the Finals game. I did see she was getting touched up a lot before the fight ended.

I thought Miesha looked good for being out of the game for 5 years. I do respect her for being an OG of WMMA. I saw Holm was talking about a rematch, wouldn't mind that. Or maybe Aldana since she fought recently. Cool Miesha wants to fight for the belt again, although I don't see a path to her beating Nunes.

 

[Rizz]

Holly vs Tate 2 is a big no from me. Don't waste a precious Tate fight on boring Holly. Like the last fight Holly is going to stay out of range and run the whole fight. Knowing the UFC they will just see 2 big names and book it.

 

[Rizz]

How amazing did Amanda look? She has looked good enough where I am now comfortable naming her a prospect in a division as deep as 115. I treat the label prospect with reverence. I don't like how people have watered down the label to where any young fighter that signs to a major promotion is now called a prospect. I still remember when people were calling Kristina Williams a prospect just because she beat Heather Hardy. Amanda is older but she is showing a level of striking talent and power that is impressive. I need to see how Amanda does vs a known good wrestler before I just on the hype train though.

 

[Rizz]

I'd say Tate look about the same as she did when she left, she can do some basic striking but once she gets touched up she starts swinging wild and goes for the takedowns. Tate still doesn't have much defence, but that's probably not going to be too much of a problem until she matches one of the top 5.

What you said about Tate is exactly how I feel after finally getting to watch it. Her fitness looks way better than when she left. Overall she looks about the same as when she retired. I would not be surprised if she degraded a little during her retirement but her new and improved body bridged the gap. I know she is talking about Championship and everything but I don't see her beating Amanda.

Her and the UFC need to play this correctly. They need to keep her out of boring fights and keep her in competitive fights. You have a female fighter who can be a name at 135. Don't be dumb like you always are and throw her in the deep end to kill off any and all momentum. Tate needs to be fighting fighters like Julia Avila, Pannie, Lina or Yana for her next fight or two. If she wins those then keep working up to fighters like Irene, or Aspen. You get to have a named fighter in a division that has needed one for a long time and she gets to make money and work her way up the rankings without being thrown to the wolves right off the bat.

Edit: Sorry about all the early morning posts. I am now up super early in the morning with nothing to do but type!

 

[Luffy]

ONe doesn’t have any fights scheduled right now, at least publicly.

The fight was to happen last month but got postponed due to covid, right?

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Looks like she is still pissed about the stoppage, lol. It might have been a tad early, was switching back and forth between the Finals game. I did see she was getting touched up a lot before the fight ended.

I thought Miesha looked good for being out of the game for 5 years. I do respect her for being an OG of WMMA. I saw Holm was talking about a rematch, wouldn't mind that. Or maybe Aldana since she fought recently. Cool Miesha wants to fight for the belt again, although I don't see a path to her beating Nunes.

She was stumbling all over the cage when she got up. I think Tognoni sucks but he saved her from further damage there.

 

[leto1776]

The fight was to happen last month but got postponed due to covid, right?

Correct

 

[msm1981]

If Monsterat Ruiz had been allowed to continue she would have been badly concussed to the point
she would have been hearing wedding bells minus the part about bells near by.

 

[fifthletter]

What you said about Tate is exactly how I feel after finally getting to watch it. Her fitness looks way better than when she left. Overall she looks about the same as when she retired. I would not be surprised if she degraded a little during her retirement but her new and improved body bridged the gap. I know she is talking about Championship and everything but I don't see her beating Amanda.

Her and the UFC need to play this correctly. They need to keep her out of boring fights and keep her in competitive fights. You have a female fighter who can be a name at 135. Don't be dumb like you always are and throw her in the deep end to kill off any and all momentum. Tate needs to be fighting fighters like Julia Avila, Pannie, Lina or Yana for her next fight or two. If she wins those then keep working up to fighters like Irene, or Aspen. You get to have a named fighter in a division that has needed one for a long time and she gets to make money and work her way up the rankings without being thrown to the wolves right off the bat.

Edit: Sorry about all the early morning posts. I am now up super early in the morning with nothing to do but type!

I think she probably is exactly where she left off, but sadly, I think that's still good enough to be second or 3rd best in the division. In 5 years, there has not been too much progress made in the division. I think Tate is a really bad matchup for Aldana, and would really not be surprised if tate finished her. I think the fight with Germaine is interesting but I'm not sure where Germaine is on fighting. Basically if I was Tate, I'd call out Aldana, grapple her to death, and then call for a title shot.

To Rizz's point, I feel like the other woman's divisions have had pretty good prospects over the years. Sure Rose and Carla have been around since strawweight started, but Weili, Dern, Rodriguez, have all made it super exciting. Valentina has dominated 125, but I like all the young blood in that division, Mazo, Maverick, Cortez, Barber all have shown flashes. Then of course Calvillo, Grasso, Suarez may even challenge for the title.

But 135 is a bit stagnant. I'm not sure if it's just because of it being a higher weight, but it's a bit disappointing. Not to be a downer. Just remember when Rousey was fighting and there was a lot of prospects between Mcmann, Holm, Nunes, Zingano, Miesha. I guess the next crop of prospects was like Yana, Aldana, Viera, Ladd, but they haven't been able to find their championship level.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

My weekend thoughts: Tate looks about the same as she left which means she's got nothing for amanda. If she's serious about another title fight Holm rematch makes sense, if she wants there's lots of other new blood in the top 10 she can fight too, Aldana, Ladd, yana, and Vieira. Wonder where they rank her next week.

Stoppage was early but ruiz was about to be gnp bad anyways. Lemos very clean strikes time for a top 10 opponent.

Velasquez won on my card too 2,3,4 was crazy close.

 

[JarlSkuld]

Probably a mistake for me to comment on Tate...but I was perplexed by her decision to come back. It didn't make much sense. I figured she might be angling for a trilogy with Ronda (as apparently MMA fans will spend money on nostalgia). I thought she was smart to comeback vs. Reneau as it was someone in the Top 10 she could beat and wouldn't take much damage fighting (no disrespect to Marion, but she is well past her peak at this point). My guess is that Tate's ultimate goal is still to lure Rousey back to the cage. Let's face it; if there was ever a way for Rousey to fight in MMA again, this would be it. Not saying it definitely will happen, but it could.

Where should Tate go from here? Where will she go from here? As the Pennington fight proved, Tate can't really beat anyone in the Top 5 (then, and she is just older and slower now). Who wants to see Tate step to the front of the line and fight for a title again? Anyone? I think Nunes would send her to the emergency room at this point. She could be used to put over some of the younger fighters, like Ladd or Aldana (I think both would finish her in 2 rounds or less). But, what Nunes needs is new blood rising to the top to earn their shot, not washed up vets getting yet another chance. In that sense, I think the rematch with Holm makes sense. It keeps both of them out of the way of the title shot and provides a huge boost of nostalgia to sell a PPV. Holly has probably learned to defend a RNC by now and thus, should dance her way to an easy victory...but who knows? Holm has put on a lot of miles as well and isn't a spring chicken anymore. If anything, it'll be the "exciting" striker vs. grappler dynamic.

Prediction: Tate vs. Holm and the winner gets another title shot at Nunes...and they (doesn't matter which) gets destroyed by Nunes again....while Aldana and Ladd keep fighting random opponents in the Top 10.

Jarl

 

[Rizz]

I think she probably is exactly where she left off, but sadly, I think that's still good enough to be second or 3rd best in the division. In 5 years, there has not been too much progress made in the division. I think Tate is a really bad matchup for Aldana, and would really not be surprised if tate finished her. I think the fight with Germaine is interesting but I'm not sure where Germaine is on fighting. Basically if I was Tate, I'd call out Aldana, grapple her to death, and then call for a title shot.

To Rizz's point, I feel like the other woman's divisions have had pretty good prospects over the years. Sure Rose and Carla have been around since strawweight started, but Weili, Dern, Rodriguez, have all made it super exciting. Valentina has dominated 125, but I like all the young blood in that division, Mazo, Maverick, Cortez, Barber all have shown flashes. Then of course Calvillo, Grasso, Suarez may even challenge for the title.

But 135 is a bit stagnant. I'm not sure if it's just because of it being a higher weight, but it's a bit disappointing. Not to be a downer. Just remember when Rousey was fighting and there was a lot of prospects between Mcmann, Holm, Nunes, Zingano, Miesha. I guess the next crop of prospects was like Yana, Aldana, Viera, Ladd, but they haven't been able to find their championship level.

Sadly everything you said is true. 135 and 145 have been extra disappointing when talking about evolving and having credible prospects. I know 125 get trashed by general MMA fans but they are too ignorant to see the growth of it and just see Valentina dominating so they think it has to still be trash. In reality 125 has a lot of young talent on the come up added with former 115ers who grew out of their old division. In my opinion, 125 is in a very healthy spot for a division. It is still young and we need for the young talent to develop but don't mistake that for still being bad like it was a few years ago. It is crazy how much of a head start 135 and 145 had on 125 and 125 already passed them up.

Overall 145 is a dumpster fire but they have a possible generational talent in Kayla. I know she is currently fighting at 155 but everyone knows she is a 145er. It took me a long time to warm up to Kayla but now I am a fan.

Overall 135 is in a better spot than 145 but that is not really saying much. 135 has some new blood but I don't see them making a mark in the top 5 of the division. I would include Macy Chaisson, Pannie and Julia Avila in that group. I really hope someone proves me wrong because 135 really needs it.

I know some people don't agree with me on this but I wish the UFC opened a 105 division. It would take a few years but it would grow just like 125 did. I really think Tecia could be a star of it. Once I seen how well she did vs people her size it really opened my eyes that Invicta era Tecia was still there but she is just undersized for 115. I would love to see how Tecia does vs the established best 105ers. I think she would surprise a lot of people. Years ago I said 125 would take up the second best division before it even opened and I truly feel that 105 would battle 125 for second in a few years. Thanks for your reply I used it to get some of the feels I had about each of these divisions off my chest.

 

[Eater of Souls]

I know some people don't agree with me on this but I wish the UFC opened a 105 division. It would take a few years but it would grow just like 125 did. I really think Tecia could be a star of it. Once I seen how well she did vs people her size it really opened my eyes that Invicta era Tecia was still there but she is just undersized for 115. I would love to see how Tecia does vs the established best 105ers. I think she would surprise a lot of people. Years ago I said 125 would take up the second best division before it even opened and I truly feel that 105 would battle 125 for second in a few years. Thanks for your reply I used it to get some of the feels I had about each of these divisions off my chest.

Agree with your non-quoted points. Truly agree with the above. It would also be a great place for Carla, Loma and others. Get rid of 145 and open 105. It might also allow them to draw more Asian fighters if the UFC is truly trying to expand in that market.