Official Women's Division Discussion #25

[Askafan]

just wanna say i love the av, sistah

...

It's my tribute to Sijara missing weight.

 

[awiv]

Just noticed this is the same day as Invicta FC 33, Bellator 213, and UFC on Fox 31. Huge weekend for wmma, possibly the biggest ever.

Had it on my article with Shannon. It will be after the UFC event, but concurrent with the Bellator event.

 

[Kaybee]

Since Michelle Waterson said she hoped the UFC would do an all female PPV I thought I would give it a go at a PPV that would show off the best WMMA has to offer and would be guaranteed to be 1 of the biggest PPVs in UFC history. I don't abide by the usually UFC PPV rules because they are dumb and I include fighters from other organizations and some retired fighters to spice things up and make sure we have a full card of amazing fights.

MainCard: PPV Section

Main: Ronda vs Tate 3(135)
Co-Main: Gina Carano vs Julie Kedzie(140)
3: Cris Cyborg vs Amanda Nunes(145 Title)
2: Thug Rose Vs Andrade(115 Title)
1: Joanna vs Valentina(125 Title)

Undercard: ESPN
Main: PVZ vs Rachael Ostovich(125)
Co-Main: Seo He Ham vs Rena(105)
3: Jessica Penne vs Waterson 2(115)
2: Dern vs Tatiana(115)
1: Andrea Lee vs JoJo(125)

FightPass Card:
Main:Cat Zingano vs Megan Anderson(145)
Co-Main:Amanda Serrano vs Tiffandy Van Soest(120)
3: Charmaine Tweet vs Amanda Bell(145)
2: Miriam Nakamoto vs Lauren Murphy(135)
1: Alyse Anderson vs Amber Brown(105)

Honorable Mentions:
Raquel Pa'aluhi vs Irene Aldana
Alexa Grasso vs Felice Herrig

The honorable mentions did not make the card due to it being full. I wanted to make a brief explanation for all my picks but the post is already too long so I decided against it. I could do it in a later post if anyone actually cares to know why I made these selections. If anyone else wants to try something like this I would be interested in seeing what your picks would be and why you picked them.

I think you are overthinking this by stacking this card with just about any imaginable WMMA fight of interest.

A card with Ronda, Cyborg, and maybe a few semi-names like PVZ, Waterson, Zingano put up against fun opponents is all the card needs to do well IMO. You could fill the rest of the card with a bunch of whodafooks and it wouldn't affect the numbers at all.

 

[awiv]

Rizin will have a presser at 7 p.m. pst tonight (Sunday) to announce its NYE card. Their facebook will have the English feed

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

Oh really, what's the minimum wage in the US?

So we're comparing the earnings of women dedicated, talented, and lucky enough to have an extended career in the UFC to minimum wage now?!

A lot of women who have the time, energy, and ability to devote to high-level sports can get pretty decent jobs. A salary of $50k a year probably works out to more than many female fighters in the UFC, when you deduct the cut of their trainers, nutrionists, the cost of camp, etc.

And it's funny you mention minimum wage, since from what I've read, a lot of minimum wage earners make more money than Invicta fighters do, and with far less damage to their bodies.

It's not about revealing clothes it's about looking like a professional athlete, or would you be ok with a guy turning up in a rugby shirt and a woolly hat?

I actually agree that the attire for women needs to be more standardized. I just found it really funny that you're implying anyone not into WMMA is sexist and then turn around and propose something that would have #MeToo and feminists everywhere on the UFC like raging furies.

Like, have you thought ANY of your arguments through?

Btw lol at your use of selective arguments, let's just quote a couple of low ppv figures while ignoring two of the top ten ppvs of all time and let's just mention some early retirees and ignore all the thirty somethings.

It's you who are being selective here. "Two of the top ten PPVs of all time" were that way because of one fighter and one fighter only. Ronda Rousey. You might as well use Conor McGregor as an example of how wildly popular featherweight fighters are.

Aside from Rousey, Cyborg is a moderate draw, with Cyborg vs. Holm doing a respectable 380k buys (although Khabib being on the card helped a lot) and Cyborg vs. Kunitskaya was an acceptable 260k earlier this year.

But that's it. Holm is a terrible draw, and as indicated already, Nunes and Shevchenko aren't draws at all. As for the strawweights, there is such little confidence in them that even the UFC hasn't tried to get them to headline a PPV.

 

[leto1776]

So we're comparing the earnings of women dedicated, talented, and lucky enough to have an extended career in the UFC to minimum wage now?!

A lot of women who have the time, energy, and ability to devote to high-level sports can get pretty decent jobs. A salary of $50k a year probably works out to more than many female fighters in the UFC, when you deduct the cut of their trainers, nutrionists, the cost of camp, etc.

And it's funny you mention minimum wage, since from what I've read, a lot of minimum wage earners make more money than Invicta fighters do, and with far less damage to their bodies.



I actually agree that the attire for women needs to be more standardized. I just found it really funny that you're implying anyone not into WMMA is sexist and then turn around and propose something that would have #MeToo and feminists everywhere on the UFC like raging furies.

Like, have you thought ANY of your arguments through?



It's you who are being selective here. "Two of the top ten PPVs of all time" were that way because of one fighter and one fighter only. Ronda Rousey. You might as well use Conor McGregor as an example of how wildly popular featherweight fighters are.

Aside from Rousey, Cyborg is a moderate draw, with Cyborg vs. Holm doing a respectable 380k buys (although Khabib being on the card helped a lot) and Cyborg vs. Kunitskaya was an acceptable 260k earlier this year.

But that's it. Holm is a terrible draw, and as indicated already, Nunes and Shevchenko aren't draws at all. As for the strawweights, there is such little confidence in them that even the UFC hasn't tried to get them to headline a PPV.

“Khabib helped a lot.”

 

[Eater of Souls]

I think you are overthinking this by stacking this card with just about any imaginable WMMA fight of interest.

A card with Ronda, Cyborg, and maybe a few semi-names like PVZ, Waterson, Zingano put up against fun opponents is all the card needs to do well IMO. You could fill the rest of the card with a bunch of whodafooks and it wouldn't affect the numbers at all.

It pains me to say that a Ronda return would be the best an all-female card could do.

 

[Kaybee]

It's not about revealing clothes it's about looking like a professional athlete, or would you be ok with a guy turning up in a rugby shirt and a woolly hat?

Yeah, I'm really hoping that the UFC (and I suppose Reebok if they have any say) tightens up a bit on this.

I'm fine with a few tops and a tank option for those who want something a bit looser, but once you let fighters wear damn rashguards in the cage it starts looking like the pre-Zuffa era when guys were wearing t-shirts during fights lol.

 

[awiv]

Rizin presser Mayweather expected t make an announcement as well

 

[Rizz]

I think you are overthinking this by stacking this card with just about any imaginable WMMA fight of interest.

A card with Ronda, Cyborg, and maybe a few semi-names like PVZ, Waterson, Zingano put up against fun opponents is all the card needs to do well IMO. You could fill the rest of the card with a bunch of whodafooks and it wouldn't affect the numbers at all.

You are totally right. I stacked it because I wanted to make a card that would be amazing top to bottom. I wanted to make the best possible card with no restrictions. I wanted every fight to bring a mixture of 3 qualities of varying levels.

PPV draw or TV draw.
Nostalgia
can't miss exciting fight chemistry.(none of that terrible UFC match making the gives us mostly boring fights)

 

[awiv]

Angela Lee not medically cleared for her fight this weekend

 

[leto1776]

Angela Lee not medically cleared for her fight this weekend

When did this happen? 4 days ago she was showing off her couples” costume for Halloween, 2 days ago she was showing off her new hair cut.

 

[Askafan]

So we're comparing the earnings of women dedicated, talented, and lucky enough to have an extended career in the UFC to minimum wage now?!

A lot of women who have the time, energy, and ability to devote to high-level sports can get pretty decent jobs. A salary of $50k a year probably works out to more than many female fighters in the UFC, when you deduct the cut of their trainers, nutrionists, the cost of camp, etc.

And it's funny you mention minimum wage, since from what I've read, a lot of minimum wage earners make more money than Invicta fighters do, and with far less damage to their bodies.



I actually agree that the attire for women needs to be more standardized. I just found it really funny that you're implying anyone not into WMMA is sexist and then turn around and propose something that would have #MeToo and feminists everywhere on the UFC like raging furies.

Like, have you thought ANY of your arguments through?



It's you who are being selective here. "Two of the top ten PPVs of all time" were that way because of one fighter and one fighter only. Ronda Rousey. You might as well use Conor McGregor as an example of how wildly popular featherweight fighters are.

Aside from Rousey, Cyborg is a moderate draw, with Cyborg vs. Holm doing a respectable 380k buys (although Khabib being on the card helped a lot) and Cyborg vs. Kunitskaya was an acceptable 260k earlier this year.

But that's it. Holm is a terrible draw, and as indicated already, Nunes and Shevchenko aren't draws at all. As for the strawweights, there is such little confidence in them that even the UFC hasn't tried to get them to headline a PPV.

I gave some examples of decent pay earned by some female fighters in the UFC and suggested that this would lead to better athletes entering the sport. You're the one who said that that money was peanuts compared to a normal job. Now you're talking about Invicts or the 12 to show girls, but your peanut response was made to an entirely different point .... the top earners, so it was pretty dumb hence the facetious reply.

I'm not implying that anyone not into wmma is sexist, that's you and your straw man arguments again. Don't have nightmares about raging feminists though, I doubt the UFC dress code is going to be that high on their list of things to rage about.

And yes you were selective with your facts, the majority of female fighters don't retire in their 20s and you did ignore Rousey and Cyborg. The UFC certainly has a problem with its ppv model and its failure to energise the fanbase, but that's a wider problem than just the wmma niche.

 

[thatdude21601]

Ayaka Hamasaki might be fighting on a Floyd Mayweather card. That's weird.

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

I gave some examples of decent pay earned by some female fighters in the UFC and suggested that this would lead to better athletes entering the sport.

I should have double-checked your numbers. Turns out your argument is even more faulty and ridiculous than I had thought.

For instance, you claimed "In her last 3 fights Roxy has banked something like $270k in purses".

Looking up the actual numbers, Roxy, over her entire career, has made only $227k in disclosed pay. And a great bulk of that was the $100k she made for the fight against Nicco Montano.

Even if one is exceedingly generous and assumes she really made $350k (which would be wrong, since I know her early fights she was getting paid $1k or less), that's still $350k over 16 years. That works out to just under $22,000 a year, before accounting for coaches, training camps, etc.

Oh, and that is with her being a respected veteran and top 10 in her division. What elite female athletes are doing cartwheels over the prospect of $22k a year while getting beat up, injuring themselves, delaying pregnancy, etc?!

I doubt the UFC dress code is going to be that high on their list of things to rage about.

If you seriously think the UFC telling long-time, respected female fighters what they have to wear, and that it MUST be more revealing wouldn't spawn a huge, huge backlash, you are either very ignorant or very dishonest about the current state of society.

And yes you were selective with your facts, the majority of female fighters don't retire in their 20s and you did ignore Rousey and Cyborg. The UFC certainly has a problem with its ppv model and its failure to energise the fanbase, but that's a wider problem than just the wmma niche.

If WMMA was so popular, then Invicta would be a smash success, instead of an organization only kept alive through the UFC subisidizing it, in the same manner the NBA subsidizes the WNBA's huge financial losses. Nor would their athletes be paid so horribly, with Modafferi's $13,000 for Invicta FC 16 in 2016 topping their payroll;

https://www.mmafighting.com/2016/3/...es-roxanne-modafferi-leads-payroll-with-13000

 

[Askafan]

I should have double-checked your numbers. Turns out your argument is even more faulty and ridiculous than I had thought.

For instance, you claimed "In her last 3 fights Roxy has banked something like $270k in purses".

Looking up the actual numbers, Roxy, over her entire career, has made only $227k in disclosed pay. And a great bulk of that was the $100k she made for the fight against Nicco Montano.

Even if one is exceedingly generous and assumes she really made $350k (which would be wrong, since I know her early fights she was getting paid $1k or less), that's still $350k over 16 years. That works out to just under $22,000 a year, before accounting for coaches, training camps, etc.

Oh, and that is with her being a respected veteran and top 10 in her division. What elite female athletes are doing cartwheels over the prospect of $22k a year while getting beat up, injuring themselves, delaying pregnancy, etc?!



If you seriously think the UFC telling long-time, respected female fighters what they have to wear, and that it MUST be more revealing wouldn't spawn a huge, huge backlash, you are either very ignorant or very dishonest about the current state of society.



If WMMA was so popular, then Invicta would be a smash success, instead of an organization only kept alive through the UFC subisidizing it, in the same manner the NBA subsidizes the WNBA's huge financial losses. Nor would their athletes be paid so horribly, with Modafferi's $13,000 for Invicta FC 16 in 2016 topping their payroll;

https://www.mmafighting.com/2016/3/...es-roxanne-modafferi-leads-payroll-with-13000

Roxanne got 100k for the fight with Montano, plus 50k FOTN, plus 30K Reebok money. Add 25/25 for the Honchak scrap and at least 25k, probably 28k, for MSG, plus 10k Reebok money for the latest two fights and a likely 3k from Eubanks .......that's around the $270k I quoted "in purses and Reebok money"

Again you create a straw man argument because I haven't said that Roxy has been well paid over the course of her career, obviously she hasn't. My point is that nowadays some of the top fighters are getting well paid and that this will attract better athletes to the sport.

Your point about Invicta is just you arguing with yourself yet again as I've said nothing about wmma's popularity or financial viability.

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

Roxanne got 100k for the fight with Montano, plus 50k FOTN, plus 30K Reebok money.

Once again, you provide numbers that are flat-out wrong, whether due to ignorance or mendacity.

In reality, Modafferi made only $2,500 from Reebok sponsorship, not the "30k" you claim above.

Pro tip- When you have to continually lie about numbers to make your point, it's a sign your argument is probably bunk.

Furthermore, the $227,000 in Modafferi's disclosed lifetime earnings listed at Tapology? That includes all fight bonuses, everything except for Reebok sponsorship. (Which, as we've already established, is actually very small in Roxy's case)

Roxy had ONE good year (2017) and one decent year of making money (2018) after paying her dues for 13 freaking years and being considered top 10 in her division in the UFC. Yet again, that sucks and isn't going to attract any serious female athlete or intelligent woman with life prospects by virtue of money alone.

Your point about Invicta is just you arguing with yourself yet again as I've said nothing about wmma's popularity or financial viability.

I don't care what you said. The financial viability of arguably the #2 organization for WMMA in the world, Invicta, is pretty damn important when it comes to how financially attractive MMA is for prospective athletes.

Pretending otherwise is, yet again, either stupidity or dishonesty.

 

[Askafan]

Once again, you provide numbers that are flat-out wrong, whether due to ignorance or mendacity.

In reality, Modafferi made only $2,500 from Reebok sponsorship, not the "30k" you claim above.

Pro tip- When you have to continually lie about numbers to make your point, it's a sign your argument is probably bunk.

Furthermore, the $227,000 in Modafferi's disclosed lifetime earnings listed at Tapology? That includes all fight bonuses, everything except for Reebok sponsorship. (Which, as we've already established, is actually very small in Roxy's case)

Roxy had ONE good year (2017) and one decent year of making money (2018) after paying her dues for 13 freaking years and being considered top 10 in her division in the UFC. Yet again, that sucks and isn't going to attract any serious female athlete or intelligent woman with life prospects by virtue of money alone.



I don't care what you said. The financial viability of arguably the #2 organization for WMMA in the world, Invicta, is pretty damn important when it comes to how financially attractive MMA is for prospective athletes.

Pretending otherwise is, yet again, either stupidity or dishonesty.

Title challengers get $30k under the terms of the Reebok deal. I don't think you're dishonest, stupid certainly.

Here look at a well respected mma site for the facts before you start badmouthing people

https://mmajunkie.com/2017/12/tuf-2...ontano-modafferi-get-30k-each-for-title-fight

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

Websites get things wrong. Title challengers get $30k under the terms of the Reebok deal. I don't think you're dishonest, stupid certainly.

These are payouts released by the Nevada State Athletic Commission, you dull-witted dolt, not a random website. If they state Roxy got $2,500 from the Reebok sponsorship, that's likely correct, as opposed to numbers a random Internet idiot (you) pulls out of his/her ass.

 

[Askafan]

These are payouts released by the Nevada State Athletic Commission, you dull-witted dolt, not a random website. If they state Roxy got $2,500 from the Reebok sponsorship, that's likely correct, as opposed to numbers a random Internet idiot (you) pulls out of his/her ass.

Look the Nevada Commission don't issue details of Reebok money, it's nothing to do with them, go on their website and look.

Junkie are the people who do the legwork on fighter purses, so here you go.

https://mmajunkie.com/2017/12/tuf-2...ontano-modafferi-get-30k-each-for-title-fight