Official Women's Division Discussion #25

[PurpleStorm]

“These G.O.A.T. discussions are fun distractions while sitting around waiting for the pizza to be served. But they’re on a par with ‘Which super power would you want most: flight or invisibility?’ Whether I’m included or not in anyone’s list doesn’t matter. I played my hardest and I helped my teammates. That’s the most important thing I walked away with. The reason there is no such thing as the G.O.A.T. is because every player plays under unique circumstances. We played different positions, under different rules, with different teammates, with different coaches. Every player has to adapt to their circumstances and find a way to excel. This isn’t Highlander. There can be more than one.”
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar

 

[PurpleStorm]

I was wondering.. is there any type of rule that, ehm.. wouldn't allow a fighter to fight "stinking"?
Seems like that was a clever move of Grusander..

Yeah I read something about that from a referee once, that they can call the fight due to being offensive and stink from bodily fluids can be included in that. I think it's up to the referee's discretion. Can't recall but I think some refs have mentioned they would eventually call a fight if the person was truly stinking up the place like with that or excessive body odor.

 

[PurpleStorm]

I would put Megumi as best p4p. The argument I get from most people is "she would be smoked by today's talent". My argument back is that at that time, fighters were on the same level of in terms of training and you got to take it in consideration that the sport evolves. Like how Michael Jordan is considered the GOAT while today's NBA would probably be tougher for him.

Also take in consider the streak of 22-0 and her losses have been close decision losses. In any era this is tough to do, even if some competition were not on her skill level.

That being said Cyborg I would put as 2 since a lot of her opponents were smaller.

It raises another interesting question about who is loved and why. I never saw Megumi when she was fighting but from watching videos of her I can see why she's so beloved. Gave her heart and soul and also consistently winning. Agree Cyborg should be in the conversation as far as sheer dominance and longevity. I feel it's not her fault (or Megumi's either for that matter) that their opponents may not have been amazing. In the fight game especially though one can become beloved with some great tests even when they're defeated. Ali lost some tough bouts later in his career. A few fighter I like a lot include Nunes, Joanna and amongst younger ones Ladd & Suarez. They'll all eventually lose but I guess I tend to look at specifically brilliant performances. Joanna over Andrade. Nunes' last few fights. Just rewatched Suarez - Esparza. Significant strikes was 58-0. Obviously came away impressed with Tatiana but also what's not in the statistics is that Esparza really never gave up and I came away feeling respect for her too.

 

[PurpleStorm]

Since the thread of the day is "MMA Trades", how about the idea of UFC trying to trade Cyborg & Invicta's 145 division (Pam, Spencer, Kolesnyk, D. Santos etc) for Bellator's Macfarlane + 125 division (Letorneau, Velasquez, Lara, Arteaga etc) ?
Maybe Cyborg herself would be enough, tbh.
After the Nunes fight, and the very likely Cat Zingano win over Megan, there will be no one to Cyborg fight..

Everyone gains from it. Budd vs. Cyborg should be good.

Damn that would actually be pretty cool.

 

[PurpleStorm]

The last page was hard to read. How anyone can vigorously go to bat for Cyborg is beyond me but each to their own.

Come on now. Do your part and make vehement arguments.

 

[PurpleStorm]

Just want to add that I appreciate @executionermma making the case for Cyborg. It's an unpopular opinion here but I enjoy reading opinions that go against popular opinion. Though I can do without some of the personal attacks and that goes for everyone. It's supposed to fun. I find it all entertaining.

 

[executionermma]

Just want to add that I appreciate @executionermma making the case for Cyborg. It's an unpopular opinion here but I enjoy reading opinions that go against popular opinion. Though I can do without some of the personal attacks and that goes for everyone. It's supposed to fun. I find it all entertaining.

Really appreciate it.
I try to be as educated as i can, but the moment you disrespect a athlete i like & follow just to hate at them, probably you're losing my respect, and that's how the personal attacks came about. Usually i'm not like this, at all.

I also enjoy very much a civil debate, even when we can't reach a agreement

 

[awiv]

Mallory Martin is out of her Pancrace fight

 

[executionermma]

Changing subjects, anyone heard from any other potential candidates that could be at PFL's 155 tournament?
I posted this a few pages ago but it may have been overshadow by the Cyborg discussion.

A few candidates for PFL's 155 lbs tournament:

- Svetlena Khautova (2-0), 5'8", 31 years old, holds win over FNG's featherweight Zamzagul Fayzallanova (6-1)

- Irina Alekseyeva (0-0), 5'8", 28 years old

There's also Sarah Petterson and Bobbi Jo Dalziel out there, but i think that's it. Am i forgetting someone?

 

[Mittens]

Whoa, when did they let you out of your probation @executionermma ?

 

[Vulcan]

 

[Tobago Jones]

Come on now. Do your part and make vehement arguments.

No need, @Eater of Souls @Rizz @aerius have already made my arguments for me.

 

[aerius]

WMMA GOAT? It's a short list of names,IMO. Obviously, women like Howe, Fuji, and Rousey were way ahead of their competition; the sport had to catch up to them in a sense. I'd probably go with Rousey just because her wins were so dominant and no one did more to elevate the sport for women. I just can't put Cyborg in that list because she beat up lots of smaller women with pure brute strength and mass. That's my two yen.

Jarl

For me I always look at the strength of competition. I don't have the background knowledge & context on Japanese MMA during Fuji's era so I'm not qualified to rank her. I've only seen a few of her fights and I've never seen any of her opponents' other fights so there's no way for me to say how good she is and where she ranks. I know of her record & reputation, but without the background I don't have enough to draw my own conclusions.

Which leaves me with Ronda, Nunes, and Joanna. Like her or not, you can't question Rousey's accomplishments. She's taken out a solid string of top contenders, most of them in the 1st round. Tate, Zingano, and Kaufman were all champions or top contender level fighters.

Nunes has wiped out Ronda and Tate, and has wins over Shevchenko and Pennington who are both very solid fighters. She also has wins over McMann, de Randamie, and Budd to round things out. Other than McMann, these are all champs in major organizations or fighters with wins over recent UFC champs.

Joanna was well on the way to clearing out 115 before she lost to Rose. Claudia, Andrade, Karolina, and Tecia were all top contenders or longtime top 5 fighters in the division. Every UFC win she has is solid with the exception of Lima who's a bit of a journeyman.

For me it's a tough call between Rousey and Nunes. Flip a coin, you can make an argument for either one.

 

[Eater of Souls]

For me I always look at the strength of competition. I don't have the background knowledge & context on Japanese MMA during Fuji's era so I'm not qualified to rank her. I've only seen a few of her fights and I've never seen any of her opponents' other fights so there's no way for me to say how good she is and where she ranks. I know of her record & reputation, but without the background I don't have enough to draw my own conclusions.

Which leaves me with Ronda, Nunes, and Joanna. Like her or not, you can't question Rousey's accomplishments. She's taken out a solid string of top contenders, most of them in the 1st round. Tate, Zingano, and Kaufman were all champions or top contender level fighters.

Nunes has wiped out Ronda and Tate, and has wins over Shevchenko and Pennington who are both very solid fighters. She also has wins over McMann, de Randamie, and Budd to round things out. Other than McMann, these are all champs in major organizations or fighters with wins over recent UFC champs.

Joanna was well on the way to clearing out 115 before she lost to Rose. Claudia, Andrade, Karolina, and Tecia were all top contenders or longtime top 5 fighters in the division. Every UFC win she has is solid with the exception of Lima who's a bit of a journeyman.

For me it's a tough call between Rousey and Nunes. Flip a coin, you can make an argument for either one.

I would probably make the argument for Nunes. Sure, she has a couple more losses, but a better record overall.

Both Ronda and Nunes fought larger women, like Fujii. The problem when comparing anyone to Fujii is during her actual prime, competition was even less than it is now. To her credit, she fought women two and even three weight classes heavier than her. So all three women have done not only something Cyborg has never done, but the opposite of what she has done. When you are fighting women a weight class below the one you "would die" trying to make, well, it does not speak well of your resume.

 

[executionermma]

Whoa, when did they let you out of your probation @executionermma ?

I guess there was some internal problem with pink belts, so when i was left without one they decided to give me my black belt.

Considering that Rose is ducking Andrade, i think it's only fair.

 

[Vulcan]

oh shit there is a 6th lobo girl Georgina Almeraz 1-0

 

[Rizz]

oh shit there is a 6th lobo girl Georgina Almeraz 1-0

Am I the only one noticing that PFL and Combate also seem to have uniforms? How come there are not nearly the amount of backlash as with he UFC. This is a serious question. If there is something I am missing please drop some knowledge on me.

 

[leto1776]

oh shit there is a 6th lobo girl Georgina Almeraz 1-0

It’s like a factory, how many fighters they are producing. (Not to be confused with the JW puppy mill). Still, to this day, I can’t name a single male fighter in that camp.

Am I the only one noticing that PFL and Combate also seem to have uniforms? How come there are not nearly the amount of backlash as with he UFC. This is a serious question. If there is something I am missing please drop some knowledge on me.

Road FC as well.

Let’s be honest, though, RIZIN could do it and nobody would think twice. They’d just go on talking about UFC EVIL!!!!!!!! Rebook sucks!!!!!

 

[Kaybee]

Am I the only one noticing that PFL and Combate also seem to have uniforms? How come there are not nearly the amount of backlash as with he UFC. This is a serious question. If there is something I am missing please drop some knowledge on me.

It probably doesn't help that the Reebok uniforms have been pretty bad aesthetically, but I think the major factor is that most people who watch MMA don't really follow PFL or Combate.

 

[Askafan]

oh shit there is a 6th lobo girl Georgina Almeraz 1-0

Six you said, so I have to check that out, I gave up counting at seven.

Oh and no-one told me Lara was there ....... so seriously, have they got a rule that only hot chicks are allowed to train?