Official Women's Division Discussion #25

[leto1776]

Ilima-Lei Macfarlane's victory dance Friday night



I wish she wasn't locked down in Bellator.

 

[awiv]

I was at the Dave Schultz Memorial wrestling tournament this past week cover the women's divisions.

Photos here:

https://wombatsports.wordpress.com/2017/11/04/photo-gallery-finals-of-dave-schultz-2017/

Results here:

https://wombatsports.wordpress.com/...the-dave-schultz-womens-wrestling-tournament/

A few things to look out for in the future...

Julia Salata is already training for MMA and is expect to make her debut soon. Her goals is t be on the 2020 Olympic team then go to MMA full time. Had a lot of great takedowns and was aggressive in her matches. She will be fun to watch.

The Korean and Japanese women's teams had great representation. Will be interesting to see if we see some crossover from the Koreans now RoadFC is working on their women's divisions.

 

[Better Every Day]

She was pushed from the start and you know it.

If Paige had actually been pushed from the very start, I don't think that her UFC debut would have been buried on a Fight Pass prelim where few would see it. Nor do I think they would have rescinded her invitation to The Ultimate Fighter TV show: they could have simply chosen to have a booze-free fighter-house so that her being under the legal drinking age didn't matter.

 

[Eater of Souls]

If Paige had actually been pushed from the very start, I don't think that her UFC debut would have been buried on a Fight Pass prelim where few would see it. Nor do I think they would have rescinded her invitation to The Ultimate Fighter TV show: they could have simply chosen to have a booze-free fighter-house so that her being under the legal drinking age didn't matter.

Okay, lets give her the Cyborg treatment. Please list her top five victories. (then we see if her :"push" came from ability)

 

[Better Every Day]

Okay, lets give her the Cyborg treatment. Please list her top five victories. (then we see if her :"push" came from ability)

If the issue is whether she was pushed "from the start", then her "top five victories" wouldn't be a factor, would they?

What happened at the start was that they took away her invitation (which she had been given) to The Ultimate Fighter TV show, let her sit inactive, and then scheduled her debut on a UFC Fight Pass prelim. That was her UFC start.

Her early "push" after that was more a result of Reebok's actions, I think. And Reebok's actions were for the reasons I said earlier (which included Paige's FOTN award). I doubt that the UFC tells Reebok who to make one of their special-sponsored fighters. But once Reebok chose to do that, to give her a special contract like Ronda Rousey and Jon Jones, then the UFC wasn't likely to ever try to bury a VanZant fight again... that would've pissed the hell out of Reebok and been bad business for both companies.

 

[Askafan]

If the issue is whether she was pushed "from the start", then her "top five victories" wouldn't be a factor, would they?

What happened at the start was that they took away her invitation (which she had been given) to The Ultimate Fighter TV show, let her sit inactive, and then scheduled her debut on a UFC Fight Pass prelim. That was her UFC start.

Her early "push" after that was more a result of Reebok's actions, I think. And Reebok's actions were for the reasons I said earlier (which included Paige's FOTN award). I doubt that the UFC tells Reebok who to make one of their special-sponsored fighters. But once Reebok chose to do that, to give her a special contract like Ronda Rousey and Jon Jones, then the UFC wasn't likely to ever try to bury a VanZant fight again... that would've pissed the hell out of Reebok and been bad business for both companies.

Mark, hope you're going to change your AV for one of the upcoming matchups, I find the current one a bit unsettling.

 

[Better Every Day]

Mark, hope you're going to change your AV for one of the upcoming matchups, I find the current one a bit unsettling.

Probably Angela Hill next.

 

[Eater of Souls]

If the issue is whether she was pushed "from the start", then her "top five victories" wouldn't be a factor, would they?

Sure, as it would show she was pushed without winning shit.

What happened at the start was that they took away her invitation (which she had been given) to The Ultimate Fighter TV show, let her sit inactive, and then scheduled her debut on a UFC Fight Pass prelim. That was her UFC start.

Yes, one fight. And given the legal issues, they could either remove PVZ, or remove all of the alcohol, and we know how much they love drama. So they made the obvious call, and PVZ still got attention for losing her invite.

Her early "push" after that was more a result of Reebok's actions, I think. And Reebok's actions were for the reasons I said earlier (which included Paige's FOTN award). I doubt that the UFC tells Reebok who to make one of their special-sponsored fighters. But once Reebok chose to do that, to give her a special contract like Ronda Rousey and Jon Jones, then the UFC wasn't likely to ever try to bury a VanZant fight again... that would've pissed the hell out of Reebok and been bad business for both companies.

Nah, the company that the UFC is partnered with is not influenced by the UFC at all.

Really.

Who awards performance bonuses? A sponsor? Oh, no, wait, that is once again the UFC.

And who gives her favorable match-ups (hopefully)? So when she wins a fight against a #12 ranked opponent and moves up in ranking, she calls out an even lower-ranked fighter (Alex Chambers) who is, well, not exactly a tough match-up for most people, and then moves up again in rankings. In Reebok? No, wait that would be the UFC. And then she moves up in ranking again without fighting or any other straw weight fights occurring. Probably Reebok once again.

If you try any harder to twist this from what it obviously is, you may herniate a disc.

Notice her other big sponsors, Monster and Metro PCS? Who do they have deals with? All of these things have one thing in common.

 

[ufcfan4]

joanna always starts slow, rose looked much improved but i dont think i can tell how much from 2 minutes of fighting,i would still bet on joanna in a rematch, but glad she got humbled.
125 is going to be tricky for her if she can get put on her ass by little rose though.
i think andrade would be far too strong for rose, and gadhela would beat her as well, i dont see a long reign at the top for rose unless she has improved leaps and bounds

That's the thing I'm really, really curious about. Because it's very obvious that Rose has improved substantially since Esparza put her away (great fight by the way). But has she improved that much since she fought Tecia for the second time or since she fought KK? That I can't swear to...

I think there are a lot of girls who are tough fights for her. Andrade for sure. Tecia for sure just cause I think the style matchup is a difficult one. A stick and move fighter who is not easy to take down and not easy to hit and has never really been rocked/dropped. Also a good workrate on her. Five round fight would be another back and forth affair like their first two fights in my opinion.

Gadelha could pose problems but I think Rose could also wear her down to be honest.

Among the people who are getting close to title shot range, I think that Rose is a real bad fight for Felice, a bad fight for my girl Calvillo, but I believe Torres and Andrade and Gadelha are very tough.

The interesting thing too is while I definitely feel Joanna could win the belt and will always root for her, I think she may be one of those fighters who can beat all the people who would give Rose a hard time but may lose to Rose just by virtue of the matchup. Namajunas has such good killer instinct and finishing prowess that Joanna's susceptibility to getting wobbled becomes a liability in that fight that it was not against a KK or a Claudia.

 

[Sherdoggy]

Not only did Namajunas win, she won in a one-sided victory. Can't be many who predicted that. It was like a movie script with the bully getting their comeuppance.

“She’s a great champion. I’ve learned a lot from her…When I first saw her step on the scene I learned how to be a champion from her. This week how she’s handled herself I felt like I learned how not to be a champion from her,” Namajunas said. “I appreciate all the lessons that I learned from her."

 

[ions82]

I feel that many of Namajunas' past shortcomings had to do with confidence. Now that she is focused and knows her capabilities, she will only be more deadly. I see her beating Torres with less trouble than last time (she seemed hesitant in their last outing.) I still can't believe that skinny little Rose knocked JJ's legs wobbly. I thought the fight would've gone that exact way but with the roles reversed. That left was beautiful.

In my fantasy world, Rose will win a few defenses while Suarez makes her way up the ranks. I'm still hopeful that she can realize her full potential in the UFC.

As for VanZant, can we just put that shit to rest? Who cares if she was tossed cans at some point? She took a couple beatings, too. Perhaps she wanted to fight Chambers as she feels bad for Astro Girl (who was one of the nicest girls on TUF and has just been forgotten and is probably broke from being inactive.) I feel forever indebted to PVZ for her highlight-reel switch kick to Rawlings' nugget. Hi-YA!

 

[ufcfan4]

I feel that many of Namajunas' past shortcomings had to do with confidence. Now that she is focused and knows her capabilities, she will only be more deadly. I see her beating Torres with less trouble than last time (she seemed hesitant in their last outing.) I still can't believe that skinny little Rose knocked JJ's legs wobbly. I thought the fight would've gone that exact way but with the roles reversed. That left was beautiful.

In my fantasy world, Rose will win a few defenses while Suarez makes her way up the ranks. I'm still hopeful that she can realize her full potential in the UFC.

As for VanZant, can we just put that shit to rest? Who cares if she was tossed cans at some point? She took a couple beatings, too. Perhaps she wanted to fight Chambers as she feels bad for Astro Girl (who was one of the nicest girls on TUF and has just been forgotten and is probably broke from being inactive.) I feel forever indebted to PVZ for her highlight-reel switch kick to Rawlings' nugget. Hi-YA!

I like PVZ a lot. Don't really know if 125 is the best move for her. She never struck me as a big 115 at all though I've read that the cut was brutal for her...

 

[ions82]

I like PVZ a lot. Don't really know if 125 is the best move for her. She never struck me as a big 115 at all though I've read that the cut was brutal for her...

I'd be OK with her at 125. Not because I think she will be more successful at FLW but because I'd be curious to see a rematch with Rawlings. Outside of that, I think she might have a difficult time. 125 will quickly turn into a shark tank of skilled fighters.

 

[Thirdpres]

Crazy weekend of fights. I've been out of town traveling and dealing with a bit of a flu on the side. Not fun but at least the fights have been.

Good stuff.

I have liked seeing Namajunas develop muscle tone. She is (not) that skinny anymore and has been looking better and better in her fights. Good to see her put on a masterful performance in winning the UFC Strawweight Title!

Congrats to her.

 

[Black Jack Kane]

Devastating for Joanna losing to strikes, far worse than a sub. I hope she retires, really shouldn't be losing to punches at 115.

Rose should defend against Andrade now, extra spring in the step of all the strawweights today I'm sure.

She didn't just lose. She quit.

Time off for both of them is probably a good thing. Coming back at the same time for a rematch works. She's been a dominant champ long enough to get the immediate rematch IMO. Then we'll see if she really is done.

It is all a lot more interesting now that JJ does not look so invincible. Probably more importantly, now that she doesn't feel so invincible.

Andrade should get it if JJ is not ready.

 

[Askafan]

She didn't just lose. She quit.

Time off for both of them is probably a good thing. Coming back at the same time for a rematch works. She's been a dominant champ long enough to get the immediate rematch IMO. Then we'll see if she really is done.

It is all a lot more interesting now that JJ does not look so invincible. Probably more importantly, now that she doesn't feel so invincible.

Andrade should get it if JJ is not ready.

Quit has this sense of the contemptuous, doesn't it. She quit, she tapped to strikes, how cowardly. Tap to a choke or a submission hold and your lauded as showing common sense. Strange how preserving your arm from the inevitable is fine, while preserving your brain isn't.

Joanna knew she was done, I guess she could have taken a few more headshots waiting for Big John to come to the same conclusion. Quit suggests she could have fought on, really? .....No, she lost, she was beaten, end of.

 

[Edwin]

KSW is apparently negotiating with Robert Lewandowski's (famous Polish football player for Bayern Munich in Germany and for Polish national team) wife Anna Lewandowska for a potential fight.

 

[Black Jack Kane]

Quit has this sense of the contemptuous, doesn't it. She quit, she tapped to strikes, how cowardly. Tap to a choke or a submission hold and your lauded as showing common sense. Strange how preserving your arm from the inevitable is fine, while preserving your brain isn't.

Joanna knew she was done, I guess she could have taken a few more headshots waiting for Big John to come to the same conclusion. Quit suggests she could have fought on, really? .....No, she lost, she was beaten, end of.

I wouldn't say "cowardly". But I would question her resolve. Bisping went out rather than admit he was done. I'd question how well she deals with adversity now. I would question how much her heart is really still in this.

I expected her to get the record. Fight for the belt at 125 and then retire. Win or lose.

Now she has to climb that mountain again. Without the assurance that she had before. She has been accustomed to being the bully. Now she knows what is like to be on the other end in MMA.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Quit has this sense of the contemptuous, doesn't it. She quit, she tapped to strikes, how cowardly. Tap to a choke or a submission hold and your lauded as showing common sense. Strange how preserving your arm from the inevitable is fine, while preserving your brain isn't.

Joanna knew she was done, I guess she could have taken a few more headshots waiting for Big John to come to the same conclusion. Quit suggests she could have fought on, really? .....No, she lost, she was beaten, end of.

You do not get paid more to take extra shots when you are down.

 

[Eater of Souls]

I wouldn't say "cowardly". But I would question her resolve. Bisping went out rather than admit he was done. I'd question how well she deals with adversity now. I would question how much her heart is really still in this.

I expected her to get the record. Fight for the belt at 125 and then retire. Win or lose.

Now she has to climb that mountain again. Without the assurance that she had before. She has been accustomed to being the bully. Now she knows what is like to be on the other end in MMA.

You take less damage going out from a choke that you do from getting punched in the head. But either way you still lose.

She has the resolve to fight more than 70 times when you count all of her various fights. No one should question this from behind their keyboard.