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amen. the difference for me between being the crusher and the crushee is how much sleep i had and what was for lunch
Official Judo Thread VIII
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I wish people would stop saying this. It might have been true back when Judo had more groundwork and BJJ was simpler, and it might be true still for individual Judoka who are very ne waza focused, but in general it's totally false. Probably 90% of what you learn to get your blue belt in BJJ would be totally unfamiliar to most shodans. Now, the shodan would have better body awareness, hips, grips, etc. than many blue belts but he's not going to have the same technical knowledge.
I'm always curious who these shodans are who are stomping purple belts (or who the purple belts are that are getting stomped). I train at a pretty tough Judo club with multi time national champs and visiting national team members from other countries, and I've never been close to even having my guard passed. Usually the best the Judo guys can do is stall in my closed guard, because I'm playing a totally different meta game than they are and they don't know how to deal with it. If I let them start on top turtle it's tougher, but I think I've only been pinned or subbed once in the last 2 years.
Judoka are tough to submit for sure, but they have basically no knowledge regarding playing or passing open guards which has become one of the main focuses of BJJ in recent years.
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I only did BJJ for about 18 months, training it just three hours most weeks. Yet after just six months of training I, as a green belt in judo, would regularly submit dan grades. Also, the older the dan grade the lower my success rate.
I think it's important to keep in mind that the dan grades are generally taking it easy on beginners.
A black belt I do randori regularly with is going well below his normal level when he spars with me. As such, I don't really care all that much that I threw him. I'm far more interested in getting him to exert more effort.
As far as I'm concerned, the more I force someone to try harder/work closer to their normal ability, the more I've improved.
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To clarify, I actually meant the bold. When it comes to actual BJJ-specific techniques, like open guard, ofc a given shodan won't be up to snuff with a blue belt.
You're still probably right, though. I guess my perception of judo newaza is skewed, as several of our club's members are also high level in BJJ.
In my experience, after a dan figures out that I can at least threaten them with attacks, that randori round turns into a GP final. No one's gone "easy" on me since rokkyu, and even then, I was an athletic rokkyu, so I ended up eventually getting the same crushing o sotos and Muay Thaiesque footsweep attempts as everybody else.
I take full credit for every ippon-worthy throw I get on a dan because I know they aren't taking it easy on me.
It took me a few months to learn how to deal with open guards and adapt what I knew to BJJ. Once I figured out how to win with what I was good at, I could start submitting higher belts. I learned that my top game was better than most but my guard probably blue belt level with an non-existent open guard game. A pure Judo person shouldn't be stomping purples, but at the same time it doesn't take long for them to figure out how to pass. They have the basic principles down, so they just have to get exposed to the techniques.
I'm not sure why it's unbelievable either. I mean, a purple belt has been grappling for 3-5 years. A national level Judo player has been grappling for over a decade if not two decades. He might get surprised and be clueless at the start, but it doesn't take long. After being puzzled by DLR guard I did some research and devised my own passes, and the next session I got them to work.
Also, not all and not even half, but there are plenty of people from my club who were really good at newaza. Better than me, and better than the average purple. Old timers I guess!
Edit: I guess I should add that I may not be typical or pure Judo, since I have always trained in areas with strong BJJ. I never joined a BJJ club but had exposure and did lots of YouTube and the University of JJ book is awesome.
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I think the fact that you know what De la Riva guard is sets you apart from the average Judoka. Much more so that you went and researched it to figure out passes. I admire that, but it's not something most Judo guys are going to do just because it has so little value within the sport of Judo.
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In judo newaza, I have been repeatedly told that DLR is an illegal leglock.
No idea if that's true, although so far as I can tell the question "is it illegal" in judo is always, always answered "yes." Or at best, "not illegal, but you shouldn't do it." If you have to ask .... illegal.
No idea if that's true, although so far as I can tell the question "is it illegal" in judo is always, always answered "yes." Or at best, "not illegal, but you shouldn't do it." If you have to ask .... illegal.
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'is that illegal?' or 'isn't that illegal?' is judo-speak for "i'm too self-important to admit i don't understand what's going on" or "i don't have a defense for that"
kinda like how 'you're using too much strength' usually means "i'm too out of shape to deal with you"
kinda like how 'you're using too much strength' usually means "i'm too out of shape to deal with you"
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Sorry to post so much lately, my friend Dylan just posted this:
https://life.indiegogo.com/fundrais...s=10103966499310393&fb_action_types=og.shares
He's the coach for Cal Judo and he and Anne Suzuki (#1 at 48kg) are trying to raise money for travel costs.
Yes, the top-ranked USA Judo athlete at her weight needs to solicit money from complete strangers on the internet in order to keep competing. Yay Judo!
https://life.indiegogo.com/fundrais...s=10103966499310393&fb_action_types=og.shares
He's the coach for Cal Judo and he and Anne Suzuki (#1 at 48kg) are trying to raise money for travel costs.
Yes, the top-ranked USA Judo athlete at her weight needs to solicit money from complete strangers on the internet in order to keep competing. Yay Judo!
Anne had really fine technique when she was a junior. Our coach joked that she had better technique than me, and I'm not sure he wasn't partially serious. She's definitely a smart girl, and I knew that from her Judo, not that she's going to Cal now. I hope she is successful but it's definitely an uphill battle without support and while being a student at Cal.
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Cal are a great crew. They were super hospitable when Iowa State went a few years ago for nationals and we tried our best to reciprocate when they were here for the same. They also helped us set up and tear down the mats and events and whatnot. Can't say the same for some of the other teams there...
i've got another couple friend Uchi Mata and I both know out of Denver who've got kickstarters going so they can attend some international competitions.
Hooray olympics?
i've got another couple friend Uchi Mata and I both know out of Denver who've got kickstarters going so they can attend some international competitions.
Hooray olympics?
Well, when I write "take it easy", I don't mean to say that they don't throw you or don't do anything. The guy I mentioned foot-sweeps me pretty much every chance he gets. Now that I no longer get swept immediately, I'm left with painful bruises on my ankle.
I've noticed that it differs between people though. Black belts doing randori with below-brown belt folks range from actively trying to teach you how to deal with certain situations/doing nothing but defending/Going half-speed and just catching your mistakes and punishing you/going full-bore and demolishing your ass because they can do it with impunity.
I've only gone once against a black belt who did the last one. The experience left me limping for days and with a genuine fear of getting thrown for some time. If those are the kinds of people you do randori with on a daily basis, then massive kudos. I don't think my body can handle it after a while.
I think it would be hard to use to any reasonable ends without a ref standing you up for breaking newaza. I almost always see it called as soon as the passer gets to his feet.
It isn't supposed to be, but that's how I see it done.
The leg lock thing I'm unsure about but it doesn't apply any force so I think it'd be fine.
Pretty much every time I do randori since Sankyu. I'm 95% tape at this point.
When juji gatame is applied with only one leg over Uke, Uke should kind of be up on their side with tori's foot underneath them which keeps them from rolling. The way it's done there I don't see anything that stops uke rolling and if you're going to use juji gatami from kata shiho gatame, you're probably better off throwing both legs over.
that said, in the context of a Judo match I'm not sure why you'd give up a hold down to try for juji gatame.
