No submissions for whitebelts

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by b0b, Oct 24, 2005.

  1. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    Little info about my place:

    Judo/BJJ on Gi days, and no-gi and Muay Thai on no-gi days. We use a Judo belt progression, but spend a LOT of time on BJJ. Probably 50/50. Anyways, in practice we are allowed to use the technique being taught, whether it be armbar, choke, etc...

    In open mat, white belts are not allowed to try any submission whatsoever. Yellow belts and above can. Let me preface this by saying that I completely understand the reason why, and abide by the rules, because as some people have stated, the most dangerous Judoka is a white belt. For me, as a white belt, it seems like it is fighting with one arm behind your back, if you can't use something you have practiced over and over and it is sitting right there. Also, I think it builds bad technique, because if a white belt rolls with a yellow belt or above, the higher ranked person will get used to not being submitted. Also, you cannot compete in any tournaments unless you are Yellow belt. It takes about 5-6 months to gain yellow belt.


    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. scorcho

    scorcho Brown Belt

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    That is weird. At my TJJ school, white belts are only allowed to do techniques they have been taught because of safety issues. Likewize, higher belts who roll with the whites are only allowed to try for subs the whites know. Eg. If the white has only seen the juji gatame (armbar), that is all I am allowed to do. It is very limiting, but keeps injury down. It is also instructive, since the higher belt can practice setups for basic jj techniques, while the white learns new ways to defend and set up the techs he/she has learned.
     
  3. sanuces

    sanuces Orange Belt

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    at my gym our instructor is always talking about position before submission. i can get with that as i still struggle to hit certain subs but no subs at all sounds kinda wacky to me
     
  4. tinker_190

    tinker_190 Brown Belt

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    That is kinda weird. How are you supposed to get better at doing it without actually...you know... doing it?
     
  5. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    Keep in mind, this is during the open mat session that it is not allowed, so I guess the reasoning is that an instructor isn't going to be walking around watching for bad technique, etc... We are allowed to do whatever the technique is during the actual practice time.
     
  6. flyingknee16

    flyingknee16 Brown Belt

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    No restrictions ever put on me.

    I learned the heel hook and achilles the first day I started doing jiu jitsu. Needless to say, they still told me to be careful though.
     
  7. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    No restrcitions ever put on me. However i dont think it is a bad idea for you guys. It will let you build on a positional game. The subs will be there, but you need the positioning to pull them off. Also on a competition basis.. the points will build from position changing.
     
  8. bammann45

    bammann45 Yellow Belt

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    all leg/foot and neck cranks are restricted from white belts-- other than that, they can try whatever they want...
     
  9. Joey Guidice

    Joey Guidice Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    We never had any restrictions put on us....although we wern't allowed to roll the first couple of days we started training. Just to watch and see how it went.
     
  10. Hamit Aktas

    Hamit Aktas Amateur Fighter

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    Weird inedeed.
     
  11. Travis Trayer

    Travis Trayer Amateur Fighter

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    We don't have any restrictions, other than the standard Judo rules. And in the no gi stuff we do there aren't any restritions really, and no one gets hurt.
     
  12. Steeltwo

    Steeltwo Green Belt

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    in some judo tourneys

    they do not allow armlocks of anykind. I was going to enter a tourney until i read the rules and it said no armlocks for the beginner division
     
  13. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    I see the reasoning.

    Want to hear it?

    Granted I bet 90%+ of this forum, or those that read it are probably not even blue belts yet. Most of them probably 'know' a ton of moves from instructionals, UFC's, and messing around with thier friends. The problem is they lack the fundamentals neccessary to apply those techniques.

    Huh?

    What I mean is that if you are continually trying to find the 'latest and greatest' move and tap someone with it you are missing the point entirely. In fact, the double inverted upsidedown armlock doesn't mean shit when you can't escape a mount or execute a simple combination of sweeps.

    Derrrrrrrr...

    Now the reasoning behind white belts not being able to apply submissions is because the instructor probably realized a few things. First of all newbies injuring themselves and others is high risk and kills his tuition fees. Second he also is interested in the LONG TERM progress.

    Do what?

    Long term progress. That means you are building a strong foundation and then build on that. Unfortunately since most students do about 6 months of training and then quit (subsequently referring to themselves and thier skills as 'blue belt level').

    Now lets look at that for a minute. The foundation that is. It means you must learn positioning and escapes. When you remove submissions you realize how absolutely fundamental positioning can be. And shockingly enough to you 6mo newbs...that is how you win. You continually obtain superior position until your opponent is forced into a helpless one where a submission is inevitable. It is NOT being mounted for 5 minutes straight and then going for a hail mary footlock.

    I dun understand...?

    Well, grappling in itself is but one part of the equation. As we all understand when you add punches the game changes. And if you do not know fundamental positioning and escapes you are dead meat. A mount for 5 minutes means that there won't be a hail mary footlock. It means your entire face is smashed to pieces and will require several surgeries to repair the cosmetic damage that could have been avoided had you simply stuck to the fundamentals in class.

    Well...see....I...uhhh...

    Let me continue a bit further on this. The instructor teaches class the way they want to. Based on years of experience and observation. Your piddly ass 1st week of classes not being able to figure out why you can't heel hook people full blast on your first day doesn't have that experience. You need to sit down, shut the fuck up, quit complaining, and work on the absolute fundamentals. Nobody gives a fuck if you can't pull off the double inverted upsidedown armlock during sparring. Worry about escaping side control, passing the guard, defending the half guard, and learning a few rudimentary takedowns. All that other shit will come. And *gasp* you might have to wait until you are a fucking piss yellow belt. Now take your god damn Ritalin and calm the fuck down before that double inverted upside down armlock fixation causes irrepairable damage to your fundamentals.

    Got it fucking noobs?
     
  14. Eric O

    Eric O Amateur Fighter

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    They don't let the white belts to heel hook or toe holds until they've proven themselves responsible. Aside from that we don't really have any restrictions accept for telling the more advanced ppl don't to do flying oomaplatas or triangles to white belts, lol.
     
  15. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    I hope that wasn't directed towards me. Not once did I complain about the rule. I listed my criticisms, and said that I see why we do it and abide by the rules with no complaints. There is a difference between a complaint and criticism. I was just wanting to get other people's thoughts on the subject. You need to calm down a little if that was directed towards me. If not, then accept my apologies in advance.
     
  16. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    Bob, shut your hole. You were bitching. End of story. You have my thoughts on the subject. Know your role and tap.
     
  17. Soid

    Soid Renegade of Funk

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    Who teaches your BJJ class?
     
  18. Sauron

    Sauron Red Belt

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    I guess you can practice scrambling, pin work and guard passing
     
  19. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    I like that, no subs for white belts since they are rough as hell.

    many times, even if they are far to low skills to get it, they will
    attempt it and it hurts, I can block an armbar from a mile away but
    the yanking an dgrinding just adds up. I know they are not gonna get
    it, but they dont know that. And they keep trying. SOmtimes I cant
    get out of the situation because of the weight difference, so I have to
    just wait til they tire out, and that is how I think lots of smaller BJJ guys
    get cauliflower ear from these weak guillotines.
     
  20. i do understand the thought behind for no subs for whiteys - so avoid dangerous white belts getting excited but also so get them more into positional wrestling.. but it's not needed.

    if fresh new guys are tapping guys with a decent amount more of mat time, your gym isn't strong enough.
     

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