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No points for body triangle back take - one od the dumbest rules?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by michi972, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. michi972

    michi972 Purple Belt

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    Wy there are no points when you take back and you make triangle with legs, why you don't get points?You have better control, it is uncomfortable for your opponent.Is there any logical reason why it isn't scored?
     
    RyanR likes this.
  2. Dogstarman

    Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

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    Get your hooks count to 3 then transfer to body triangle. The body triangle is a great control position but it also limits your movement as well.
     
  3. RyanR

    RyanR Black Belt

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    IBJJF has quite a few dumb rules from not getting with the times. This is one of them.
     
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  4. JustTheTip

    JustTheTip Green Belt

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    It is too easy to get. The struggle to get and achieve the hooks in makes it worth the 4 points. While the body triangle is harder for the opponent to escape, it is much easier to get than hooks.
     
  5. Gabicho

    Gabicho Brown Belt

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    I guess it goes more along the lines that it cannot be scored by everyone due to physicall limitations, both of the attacker and the defender.
    Guys with short legs or fighting thick or obese opponents just cannot get a body triangle.
    Hooks are doable.
     
  6. Alech33

    Alech33 Yellow Belt

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    Exactly. If you are looking for points sink your hooks in and then lock in the body triangle. There's a lot of rules/scoring that I don't agree with. If you need to get points gotta play to their rules
     
  7. Alech33

    Alech33 Yellow Belt

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    How do you figure it's too easy to get? Getting around to someone back is most of the battle. I can see hooks being slightly harder but they can give you trouble trying to lock the triangle too
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  8. berimBOWLoh

    berimBOWLoh Silver Belt

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    Body triangle limits all your attacks. It’s like getting mount and staying grapevines the whole time. Sure you keep the position but it’s also a stall out type spot. Defender only worries about RnC and not armbars, kinuras, triangles etc

    As far as the rules I think the point system will always be flawed
     
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  9. EGDM

    EGDM Green Belt

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    Points reflect the utility of a position, not its difficulty. The fact that many high-level grapplers put in hooks for points and then immediately give them up for a triangle tells you all you need to know.
     
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  10. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    As dumb as the reaping rule
     
  11. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    One problem according to the people responsible by the rather lame FILA grappling rules they remove scoring for the back triangle because there wasn't a clear cut boundary when people where taking the back from the closed guard.
    OTOH they could score the back triangle only when combined with a seatbelt grip.
     
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  12. cjd

    cjd Blue Belt

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    I find the body triangle offers superior control for consolidating the position, and can easily be switched into one leg across, one posting on the hip - perfect for arm traps or switching to collar chokes and armlocks. I find the hooks largely useless except as a waystation to getting to this kind of control.

    So like, yeah, the hooks rule is dumb. Agreed with the poster above that points are scored (or ought to be) based on the utility of the position/action rather than degree of difficulty. This isn't diving.
     
    mattemate likes this.
  13. Alech33

    Alech33 Yellow Belt

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    I don't entirely agree with the first part but it's a good argument. I like the triangle while I work to cross the hands for a straight jacket attack so not exactly stalling. As for their always being flaws, absolutely! That said I think ibjjf has a lot of obvious flaws that they are unwilling to fix
     
  14. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Brown Belt

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    yeah tis pretty dumb i could see maybe 1 hook maybe but a body triangle? lmao its harder to get a body triangle than both hooks and is more control its silly
     
  15. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    Most of the changes IBJJF have been doing where small tweaks to things that where extremely ridiculous. Nothing serious has been done to simplify rules, make them easier to ref or to discourage stalling. It's simply ridiculous that even outside of a pressure of a match going one and having an open pdf rule book there are plenty of calls that are hard to make.
     
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  16. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    You know what? I never thought of that, but holy crap does it make sense.
     
  17. cjd

    cjd Blue Belt

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    I think there are reasonable adjustments to the wording of this rule that encompass both the hooks, body triangle and other such permutations of how the legs are used to control using the rear mount; ie, being able to touch one foot to the other leg or something like that.
     
  18. dmwalking

    dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

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    Was Marcelo able to get both hooks against Ricco Rodriguez? I can't remember. I know he had his back.
     
  19. dmwalking

    dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

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    I vote that it's a stupid rule. Both hooks in represents full control. Body triangle with seatbelt grip is full control. Should count toward points.

    Also, crucifix should get points too. :)
     
  20. JustTheTip

    JustTheTip Green Belt

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    It depends on your body composition. I have long legs and a short torso so its way easier for me to get the body triangle than both hooks.
    Points reflect difficulty too as well as utility of position.
     
    thegreenblender likes this.

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