No more Mattis soon.

[7437]

I actually think personal attacks would be fine. It is the policy side I think he is out of line on.

If one of mattis's subordinates undermined his orders like this, Mattis would have that person drummed out the military, and charged with insubordination.

well his boss is acting like an idiot. saying it in public or private doesnt change that.

and i say things to my boss all the time that could get me charged with insubordination if i was under the UCMJ all the time. that matters exactly fuck all for Mattis's resignation. Whats trump gonna do, fire him?

 

[VivaRevolution]

well his boss is acting like an idiot. saying it in public or private doesnt change that.

and i say things to my boss all the time that could get me charged with insubordination if i was under the UCMJ all the time. that matters exactly fuck all for Mattis's resignation. Whats trump gonna do, fire him?

Mattis was subject to the UCMJ, and he made similiar comments prior to his resignation.

In fact, a story was leaked from "someone" about Mattis once out and out refusing Trump's orders.

We have literally hung people for that. You can go view the graves of hung soldiers at almost any military post in the US.

 

[7437]

Mattis was subject to the UCMJ, and he made similiar comments prior to his resignation.

In fact, a story was leaked from "someone" about Mattis once out and out refusing Trump's orders.

We have literally hung people for that. You can go view the graves of hung soldiers at almost any military post in the US.

you mean "was" in the concept that he was subject to it 5 years ago right? he hasnt been in the military for a long time.



wait, do you think the SECDEF is under the UCMJ?

 

[Ophydian]

Mattis was subject to the UCMJ, and he made similiar comments prior to his resignation.

In fact, a story was leaked from "someone" about Mattis once out and out refusing Trump's orders.

We have literally hung people for that. You can go view the graves of hung soldiers at almost any military post in the US.

A bit dramatic are we today. We’ve literally hung people for not getting his McDonalds order correctly?!?!

I just read these two posts so I know fuck all of the context here but if Mattis gave a recommendation and Trump decided to do something else, Mattis quitting over it is the right thing to do.

 

[Ophydian]

you mean "was" in the concept that he was subject to it 5 years ago right? he hasnt been in the military for a long time.



wait, do you think the SECDEF is under the UCMJ?

He’s a private citizen exactly, as tha is the only person allowed to fill that role. Remember they had to pull special shit for Mattis since he was recently in the military.

 

[7437]

A bit dramatic are we today. We’ve literally hung people for not getting his McDonalds order correctly?!?!

I just read these two posts so I know fuck all of the context here but if Mattis gave a recommendation and Trump decided to do something else, Mattis quitting over it is the right thing to do.

i wonder if he knows that the military hasnt has an execution for that in just over 70 years.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Trump supporters are gonna be like, who needs mattis when trump is the greatest military mind of all time! Just put the military uniform on him!

Nobody knows more about the military than me. Believe me!!!

 

[VivaRevolution]

A bit dramatic are we today. We’ve literally hung people for not getting his McDonalds order correctly?!?!

I just read these two posts so I know fuck all of the context here but if Mattis gave a recommendation and Trump decided to do something else, Mattis quitting over it is the right thing to do.

My point is that Mattis has went beyond that. Before he resigned, he made statements to the media about how we shouldn't pull out of Syria and Afghanistan.

Mattis has every right to resign, but he has publicly undermined the orders of his superior.

Hell, I can even justify that, if it was all done after he resigned.

The story where he is told to draw up assassination plans for Assad, by Trump(completely stupid on Trump's part), and he outright refuses the order, is a different thing. My comments might be a bit hyperbolic, but I am honestly offended on behalf of dead soldiers that were hung for doing this very same thing. We have in the past said that the military chain of command is so important, that it's violation is deserving of the death penalty. To hang people for that in the past, and just shrug our shoulders at Mattis doing this, seems a desecration of something deemed of such great import.

 

[MiniCraque]

So if Bolton and Trump decide to invade Iran you will be against the initial invasion but you will be for staying afterwards?

This was the same reasoning used to continue the Vietnam war for years. Got to finish the job

Absolutely. You shouldn't go in, but if you do, then you shouldn't just gtfo and leave a total mess behind.

Has Iraq and the creation of ISIS not taught any lessons?

 

[MiniCraque]

So what you are saying is there is no contradiction in being for an end to a war and being for the continuance of a war

Gotcha

What? Being against an invasion means the complete absence of war, not the end to one. What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[JDragon]

Absolutely. You shouldn't go in, but if you do, then you shouldn't just gtfo and leave a total mess behind.

Has Iraq and the creation of ISIS not taught any lessons?

I don't understand how this is even up for debate.

 

[Protectandserve]

My point is that Mattis has went beyond that. Before he resigned, he made statements to the media about how we shouldn't pull out of Syria and Afghanistan.

Mattis has every right to resign, but he has publicly undermined the orders of his superior.

Hell, I can even justify that, if it was all done after he resigned.

The story where he is told to draw up assassination plans for Assad, by Trump(completely stupid on Trump's part), and he outright refuses the order, is a different thing. My comments might be a bit hyperbolic, but I am honestly offended on behalf of dead soldiers that were hung for doing this very same thing. We have in the past said that the military chain of command is so important, that it's violation is deserving of the death penalty. To hang people for that in the past, and just shrug our shoulders at Mattis doing this, seems a desecration of something deemed of such great import.

Assassination of a foreign leader is not a legal order. Mattis refusing to do something that is not a legal order is what is expected.

Also him disagreeing and or refusing to do something would not normally result in a trial. If Trump had an issue over it he could have fired Mattis.

Like I said, he resigned at the point when Trump implemented something he absolutely did not support or agree with.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Assassination of a foreign leader is not a legal order. Mattis refusing to do something that is not a legal order is what is expected.

Also him disagreeing and or refusing to do something would not normally result in a trial. If Trump had an issue over it he could have fired Mattis.

Like I said, he resigned at the point when Trump implemented something he absolutely did not support or agree with.

But we have a declaration of war that has been used to justify every military action, since 9-11.

Why can bush and Obama use that fraud of a legal authority, but Trump can't?

Can't Trump just call Assad a terrorist, and it makes it legal?

 

[Grenz]

Like Mattis, you are........

If you really believe that someone with decades of experience in the military, who made it to the highest rank, hasn’t developed a deep understanding of geopolitics you’re either being naive or purposefully obtuse in order to protect your earlier position.

 

[TheComebackKid]

There's two types of people in this world.. those who appeal to authority(grenz) and those who think for themselves(not grenz).

 

[VivaRevolution]

If you really believe that someone with decades of experience in the military, who made it to the highest rank, hasn’t developed a deep understanding of geopolitics you’re either being naive or purposefully obtuse in order to protect your earlier position.

I think the appeal to his authority is logically flawed, and that their are far more qualified people then Mattis, that have come to very different conclusions.

It seems to me, the only experts the media recognizes are war Hawks, and whether a intellectual like Chomsky, or a 30 year member of congress like Ron Paul, or even a think tank like the Cato Institute has no standing.

https://www.cato.org/publications/p...k-lessons-us-foreign-policy-failed-war-terror

 

[Mike Hagger]

If you really believe that someone with decades of experience in the military, who made it to the highest rank, hasn’t developed a deep understanding of geopolitics you’re either being naive or purposefully obtuse in order to protect your earlier position.

@VivaRevolution I agree here Mattis and any other stratosphere stared general has got to be savvy in geopolitics, and is a bit of a political player themselves. An example is Eisenhower who had a well regarded presidency, here's some irony he was a Republican who ran against an isolationist who opposed NATO in 52.

 

[SBJJ]

Absolutely. You shouldn't go in, but if you do, then you shouldn't just gtfo and leave a total mess behind.

Has Iraq and the creation of ISIS not taught any lessons?

Oh Christ

Syria has 3 countries fighting ISIS. We have done nothing but get in the way. Shit, we fucking were arming these radicals

The Taliban are fighting ISIS

The fact you keep comparing these 2 wars to Iraq is nuts

 

[Joe]

Wonder if this was the plan all along

 

[SBJJ]

I don't understand how this is even up for debate.

Easy. Because Syria and Afghanistan have strong enough forces to fight ISIS

And since we seem to have stopped arming these radicals, it should be easier to confront them