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No gi, half guard underhook...?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Connoisseur, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    Ok guys, so this is gonna make me sound extremely nub-like... I've been training only during the summer, for the last 3 summers (probably 6-8 months total), and so i've had an erratic training history to say the least. For reference, i've only ever done No- Gi.

    Right now i'm going to a 10'th planet jits affiliate, and we went over pulling a quarter- guard clinch, and using that to claim a half- guard lockdown. From there, I normally try to fish for the gable grip to hit the electric chair, and i've had a decent amount of success w/ it. If I can't get that, then I try to shrimp my hips out, block their free leg, hip out and reclaim guard. From there, I have decent scissor sweep/ pendulum sweep/ armbar/ triangle/ omo & gogo (platas).

    However, I keep hearing you guys talking about "grabbing the underhook", getting onto your side, Z- guard, etc. My question is- if I can't get the electric chair, take their back, or reclaim guard from the lockdown, is this underhook a good way to play half guard? And what are the basics of this/ where can I find good instructionals online about them? Because i've heard that Submissions 101 is terrible, and honestly I don't know how to find good online, no- gi instruction videos.

    Thanks in advance guys =)
     
  2. Mike Wilson Jr.

    Mike Wilson Jr. Amateur Fighter

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    IMO, the underhook is vital for halfguard. At least for my half guard.

    It keeps you from being flat on your back. Although, you guys from 10th Planet like the lockdown, i feel it restricts your hips, and the eletric chair is an easy move to stall out.

    And if youre in bottom half, youre probably down on either points, or advantage anyway, so i dont know if being stuck, praying for a eletric chair sweep or bannana split or w.e. is the best idea.

    I have a offensive HG. I get the underhook, stay on my side, and avoid the crossface.

    If he wizzers, i set up some easy roll sweeps. Otherwise, im attacking the back, transitioning to Deep half guard, or Half Butterfly, or threatening with submissions such as straight armlocks, omaplatas, and triangles.

    Either way, i generally work for the underhook. Sometimes i let the guy get it, and ill whizzer him, and lock his arm down for a sweep, or armlock/omaplata.

    But i NEVER stay flat. Flat on your back in HG, is death via smashing.

    JMHO.
     
  3. SAIPULTURA

    SAIPULTURA Soon Enough !!!

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    wAr crocop
     
  4. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    What does "getting the underhook" mean though? I'm right- side dominant, so when I play half guard I generally tend to latch onto their right leg. Does that mean I underhook with my left arm?

    Is the underhook related to the "golden arm" series? Because I agree w/ you- when I roll with blue shirts, they easily avoid the electric chair, and since the lockdown is a big thing for 10th P JJ, I figured a different way to play half guard would be useful in two ways- 1) I can try it while rolling w/ them & possibly surprise them, and 2) It can diversify my arsenal, and maybe show me a better way to play HG.

    Any suggestions for a place to look up no- gi instructionals for this? I hear Submissions 101 is poor quality
     
  5. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    All this 10th Planet jargon is hurting my brain. I'll be honest, I don't know what the hell you are talking about with most of that post, but I'll explain the underhook.

    If you have a half guard and are latched on to your opponent's right leg, then your left arm is creating the underhook. This allows you to stay on your side, as well as get deeper into the half guard for many of your attacks. It also makes your half guard much much harder to pass, particularly in no gi.
     
  6. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    I tried to keep it to a minimum... do you train no- gi very often? Because the only 10pjj terminology I used was "quarter- guard clinch", "lockdown", & "electric chair", the latter of two being very common no- gi terms. At any rate...

    That makes sense, I figured that's what it was all about. What do you do w/ the free arm then? Hand fight? Collar tie to break their posture? Block their hips/ knee? And would you say the underhook is better for getting to a deep half guard?

    Sorry for all the questions, but i've honestly never played HG this way to be honest
     
  7. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Purple Belt

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  8. Mat Nemesis**

    Mat Nemesis** Green Belt

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    ari from sub101 is a purple shirt in 10th pjj. his videos I am sure are outstanding on this topic. viva la revolution!
     
  9. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    Judging from his competition videos (gi and no gi), he is a low level blue at best.
     
  10. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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  11. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    The free arm, you can do whatever you want. Depends what sweep you're going for.

    And yes, I train no gi often, and have been doing so for the past 5 years. It was the "golden arm" that I had no idea what it was. And the "blue shirt" thing is just hilarious to me. I'm sorry, I know that's probably what you guys call it, but most non 10th planet practitioners use it as a friendly joke from time to time.
     
  12. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Yes, using an underhook is the best way to play half guard because it allows you to sweep to either side (try the old school sweep, that's eddie bravo's favorite sweep and you need an underhook to do it) or sit up and take the back. Learn how to take the back from half guard.

    Watch out for the d'arce choke though, your underhook has to be tight to keep him from getting a good whizzer. As soon as he gets a whizzer you gotta do the "plan B" sweep to that side.
     
  13. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    OK cool, thanks man. No offense taken haha, the "golden arm" thing was actually something I find on no-gi-grappling.com, and I just wasn't sure if the place was legit.

    But yeah, i'll look into this. Because the lockdown itself simply isn't sufficient against better guys.
     
  14. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. Noskill

    Noskill Created Monkey

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    The underhook you really want is the one on the side you have their leg trapped.

    You don't need the lockdown.

    Here is a simple, sequential gameplan:

    1) Underhook, get low under them, grab their free ankle, pass it to your underhooking hand, drag the heel of their trapped leg outward with your outside leg to weaken their base, get on your elbow and drive into them (called old-school)

    2) If they keep their ankle away and you can't grab it, push on their far knee, get on your elbow, get to your knees, drive into them while pulling on their far knee (called knee tap; having their leg extended with the heel drag I previously described helps this one tremendously, and the next one also).

    3) If you can't drive them over, quickly grab under the far knee and roll in the other direction (rollunder sweep; this sweep plays off their reaction to the knee tap, so it has to be entered into with some speed).

    You can find this sequence in Mastering the Rubber Guard, in Gustavo Machado's quarter guard DVD, in Kesting's Halfguard DVD and in Gordo's original halfguard tape. THIS is the original offensive halfguard IMO. Still works like a charm. Look at Lucas Leites and Demian Maia's halfguards for proof.

    To this more traditional approach, I would add a more recent development;

    4) If they posted to prevent the rollunder, get deep under them and work your deep half sweeps.


    Jeff Monson's take on deep half sweeps:





    Also, honourable mention; Limp arm or air guitar:

     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  16. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    Alright, sick man. I just watched that 1.5 hour "functional half guard" video, that was pretty badass. I can totally see the merits of playing half guard like that. Planning on trying it out during open mat today =)

    Also, thx for the Monson/ Franca video, I really liked that one. Appreciate the help guys!
     
  17. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    good stuff in there, no doubt!

    welcome to the board my man. you're a wrestler who trains at 10th p? you must be my brother from another mother.
     
  18. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    Well, I wouldn't quite call myself a wrestler... I had a blue belt in Judo back in the day, and I trained w/ the wrestling team my senior year of HS. I am a big guy though (6'2/ 220), and so i'm used to top position- which is why i've been trying to work my bottom game lately.

    PS I've been going to a 10th PJJ affiliate for a little over a month, it's very close to school for me, and it's been working out quite well.
     
  19. jonnyquick

    jonnyquick Blue Belt

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    which 10th planet gym?
     
  20. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    Hit Pit MMA in Spokane, WA. They also have a boxing gym upstairs, where I work hands at, it's a nice set up
     

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