No Eliminator, Pick the Most Impressive Now (Long Read)

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by kamag06, May 11, 2014.

  1. kamag06

    kamag06 Blue Belt

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    Many people have been talking about Matt Brown not deserving a title fight because he hasn't beat the "upper echelon".
    I would like to display some numbers and and records over the last 6 fights in the UFC(encompasses 2-3 years most of the time which seems like a reasonable and relevant timeframe) of the "top 5". I will also show their opponents records over the past 5 years IN THE UFC.

    Hector Lombard UFC Record 3-2 (has not fought 6 times in the UFC)
    -Defeats Jake Shields (UFC Record 4-3-1) by UD
    -Defeats Nate Marquart (UFC Record last 5 Year 5-5) by KO
    -Loss to Yushin Okami (UFC Record last 5 years 7-4) by Decision
    -Defeats Palhares (UFC Record last 5 year 6-3) by KO
    -Loss to Tim Boetsch (UFC REcord last 5 years 6-4) by Decision
    Opponents total record= 28-19-1 (.583)

    Rory MacDonald UFC Record 5-1
    -Defeats Demian Maia (6-5) Decison
    -Loss to Robbie Lawler (3-1) Decision
    -Defeats Ellenberger (8-2) Decision
    -Defeats BJ Penn (3-4-1) Decision
    -Defeats Che Mills (2-2) TKO
    -Defeats Mike Pyle (8-4) TKO
    Opponents Total Record= 30-15 (.666)

    Tyrone Woodley UFC Record 3-1
    -Defeats Carlos Condit (6-3) TKO.....
    -Defeats Koschek (4-4) TKO
    -Loss to Jake Shields (4-3-1) Decision
    -Defeats Jay Hieron (0-2) KO
    Opponents Total Record= 14-12-1 (.518)

    Matt Brown UFC Record 6-0
    -Defeats Erick Silva (4-4) by TKO
    -Defeats Mike Pyle (8-4) By KO
    -Defeats Jordan Mein (2-1) By TKO
    -Defeats Mike Swick (2-3) by KO
    -Defeats Luis Ramos (0-2) By TKO
    -Defeats Thompson (4-1) By Decision
    Opponents Total Record 20-15 (.571)

    Jake Ellenberger UFC Record 4-2
    -Loss to Rory MacDonald (6-2) By Decision
    -Defeats Nate Marquart (5-5) By KO
    -Defeats Jay Hieron (0-2) By Decision
    -Loss to Martin Kampmann (5-5) By TKO
    -Defeats Diego Sanchez (4-5) By Decision
    -Defeats Jake Shields (4-3-1) By KO
    Opponents Total Record 24-22-1 (.510)

    I left out Lawler because he just fought for the belt but would love to watch him fight for it again and I left out Condit because he will be out a looooong time....

    What's your thoughts.

    Looking strictly at the numbers it is hard to understand why Matt Brown would be dismissed from a title fight so much easier than Lombard, Woodley or MacDonald. The fact that he has finished 5 of his last 6 opponents and defeated all of them (who have a .571 win pecentage in the UFC in the last 5 years) is more impressive to me than being 3-2 or 3-1 against opponents with .518 winning percentage.....
    I get the idea of what people are saying but are we maybe putting too much stock in defeating a declining Koschek, Shields or Marquart and not giving enough credit to defeating an up and comer like Stephen Thompson or Jordan Mein or a stout vet like Mike Pyle with an 8-4 record over the last 5 years....... We can sit here doing MMAth all day- looking at who the guys that they beat beat and who those guys beat and giving biased opinions but in the end these numbers show a guy in Matt Brown that finishes guys with winning records every fight.....

    Anyways. Not trying to argue, just showing the numbers. Hope he gets his shot!
     
  2. FactsAndTruth

    FactsAndTruth Orange Belt

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    Rory M. lost to Condit.

    Brown deserves the shot for so many more legitimate reasons than anyone else on this list.
     
  3. matrat103

    matrat103 Guns don't kill people, the government does. Platinum Member

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    More than six fights ago, which is the timeframe that the TS was using.
     
  4. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    Probably Lombard honestly. If Woodley beat Condit more legitimately it would be him hands down.
     
  5. Bigj383

    Bigj383 Gold Belt

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    Based on opposition quality I would go with Lombard or McDonald.
     
  6. MangoMMA

    MangoMMA Guest

    Thank u for doing this Brown deserves it
    Lombard 2 fight win streak but has only had 2 fights at WW
    Woodley 2 fight win streak beat Koscheck who should retire and was beating Condit ok but lost to Shields in a boring fight before those
    Rory is on a 1 fight win streak...
    Brown 7 fight win streak 6 T/KOs!!! who cares if they weren't big names all of those wins in that fashion adds up to beating top guys
     
  7. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Special Advisor

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    Lombard actually has two legitimate elite wins under his belt in Shields and Palhares. Ellenberger and Woodley have one each in Shields/Condit respectively, but both were under suspect circumstances. Rory and Brown have never beaten an elite WW and probably never will.
     
  8. Bigj383

    Bigj383 Gold Belt

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    Win streaks are only as good as your opponents. People come in the UFC with 20 fight win streaks and get smoked by guys coming off a loss. Brown needs a top opponent, something he really hasn't beat in his streak. It's full of prospects and gatekeepers.
     
  9. PierreDrillin

    PierreDrillin Orange Belt

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    Funny how all are pretty much in the same boat. Id go with brown by a hair tho.
     
  10. Silverstar17

    Silverstar17 Red Belt

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    This my problem with putting Brown in contention too. He needs a top guy asap.
     
  11. MangoMMA

    MangoMMA Guest

    Thats a good point but I think Brown's opponents have been good enough...if Brown vs Stun Gun happens next and Brown wins would that be a big enough win in your opinion?
     
  12. dc007

    dc007 mr. white belt

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    Easily Rory. The only one who has more of an argument just lost to Hendricks.
     
  13. Fight Professor

    Fight Professor Gold Belt

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    Rory. Lombard is overrated.
     
  14. Bigj383

    Bigj383 Gold Belt

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    No... stun gun is really not enough because he's in the same position as Brown. Any 1 of the following Lawler, Ellenberger, McDonald, Condit (when healthy), Lombard, Woodley (if he beats McDonald), the lowest he could get away with would be Maia. Too bad Shields was cut because he would be in that list as well. Also if Nick Diaz was still fighting that would do it.
     
  15. dbsh209

    dbsh209 Brown Belt

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    Rory (after he beats Woodley) or Brown should get the next title shot. If Rory gets it before Woodley, then make Brown vs. winner or Lawler/Ellenberger for the next one.
     
  16. CarloSpcyWeiner

    CarloSpcyWeiner Desert Eagle, .50 Platinum Member

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    Lombard or Woodley.
     
  17. EasternWind

    EasternWind Blue Belt

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    What is your opinion on win streaks based off UFC calibre competition? Brown's streak is all ufc fighters
     
  18. kamag06

    kamag06 Blue Belt

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    That is exactly how I feel. Their (his competion's) win % is in a dead heat for second and he has finished all but one of them....

    I see a lot about "he must beat a top guy". Well these are the top 5/7 and the only ones that have fought each other in the UFC are Robbie and Rory (close decision that I think we all agree Robbie won and Rory/ Ellenberger which didn't really show us anything for either..... IT just doesn't line up for me. They all need a top fight and in the meantime Brown appears to be the best option when you put it on paper.....

    Like I said, does anyone agree that we are putting too much stock in beating guys who are very obviously on the tail end of their careers as the fight game is evolving (i.e. Kos, Nate and Shields)?.... Just a thought....
     
  19. Bigj383

    Bigj383 Gold Belt

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    I said this in other threads. Win streaks are not that hard to come by with the right matchups even against UFC competition. G-Sot had a 7 fight win streak before getting a real step up and dropping 4 straight. As for Brown he had to dig himself out of a hole. There was a point in Brown's UFC Career where he was 5-5, Now he's 12-5 in the UFC so he is making up for all those losses. They aren't exactly stylistically tough matchups either. I don't want to disparage Brown's competition but it isn't close to the top that UFC has at WW. Mike Pyle is still his best opponent and he is very much just a gatekeeper. Stephen Thomson may one day be great but he was just to green against Brown and too one dimensional.
     
  20. theultimatefan

    theultimatefan White Belt

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    it should be matt brown cause he has the most finishes. he is a exciting great fighter!!!
     

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