NBA/ABA Top 100 Player Pyramid

[PolishHeadlock]

The thing about Hakeem is he was never really considered the best player. Once he went back to back people started to really consider him an all time great but before then he was just another great big man in a sea of great big men.

Don't get me wrong...by the end of his career he accumulated stats and a resume that distinguishes him from 99.9% of the players in his era. But he didn't dominate his era, wasn't ever considered the face of basketball, and was never in the discussion for GOAT.

When you look at the guys in Tier 1 they DID dominate their eras, were considered the faces of the sport, and at one time were being legitimately discussed as possibly the best player ever. The guys in the top 10 spent the majority of their careers contending for titles and distinguishing themselves. Hakeem distinguished himself more in retrospect.

You just described Tim Duncan.

And Hakeem was better than Timmy

 

[themainman]

You just described Tim Duncan.

And Hakeem was better than Timmy

While I absolutely think Hakeem should be in there, Duncan was MVP twice and won second twice.
I'm not sure why comebackkid is treating this as a popular contest tho. Who's more marketable, face of the NBA the fuck?
Kareem didn't sell products and kawhi isn't much either, I remember penny and the Pepsi commercials with lil penny being huge. So he should be in your ten. He was right there for 2-3 years as a megastar

 

[TheComebackKid]

i didnt say he was a scrub. one of the best COLLEGE players ever, obviously (forgot they include ncaa stuff in HOF). however, as a pro he was hurt all the time and didnt put up big enough numbers for long enough. he never even averaged 20 pts a game. and he deserves next to no credit for the second nba title he received. as a standalone, his nba numbers are not hof worthy

Next to no credit? He was the 6th man of the year that year lol. That means he was recognized as the best bench player in the league.

Now I do agree that Walton is often overrated. I don't even have him in my top 10 Centers all time. But...I do give the man credit for what he did accomplish. Leading a team to an NBA title and winning the Finals MVP is a big deal. Winning the league MVP is is huge. Leading the league is rebounds and blocks is impressive. Winning the 6th man of the year award while helping a team win another title isn't bad either. Then you throw in his college career and it's a no brainer.

 

[Madmick]

You mean this Bill Simmons?

10/10 response.

You're learning, my friend.

 

[TheComebackKid]

His MVPs are worth about as much as Nash's

You don't think he should have won it last year? His stat line was:

30.1pts / 5.4rbnds / 6.7asts / 2.1stls / 50% fg / 45% 3pt

He won the scoring title as well as led the league in steals and ft%. Oh and he led his team to an nba record 73 wins.

Cmon man, he was unanimous MVP for a reason.

 

[TheComebackKid]

While I absolutely think Hakeem should be in there, Duncan was MVP twice and won second twice.
I'm not sure why comebackkid is treating this as a popular contest tho. Who's more marketable, face of the NBA the fuck?
Kareem didn't sell products and kawhi isn't much either, I remember penny and the Pepsi commercials with lil penny being huge. So he should be in your ten. He was right there for 2-3 years as a megastar

It's not about being marketable and popular, although that helps. When I say "face of the league" I mean those that are regarded as the absolute best. The guys that defined and dominated their eras. In the 80s it was Bird and Magic. In the 90s it was Jordan. And in the 00's it was Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan. Now it's Lebron.

 

[TheComebackKid]

You just described Tim Duncan.

Nah, Tim started winning titles and MVPs right away. By his 6th year in the league he had already won 2 titles, 2 mvps, and was being considered an all time great.

And Hakeem was better than Timmy

I wouldn't argue with that.

 

[themainman]

It's not about being marketable and popular, although that helps. When I say "face of the league" I mean those that are regarded as the absolute best. The guys that defined and dominated their eras. In the 80s it was Bird and Magic. In the 90s it was Jordan. And in the 00's it was Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan. Now it's Lebron.

The face of the league is about just marketability, that's why you don't consider Kareem there even tho after Jordan he's considered the best by many. Despite the Mvps Duncan was never the face. The face of the league was always perimeter players with shaq being the exception cause of his strong personality. Face of the league is so people care and watch that doesn't show greatness, kawhi will never be the face, too quiet and subdued no matter his greatness.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

You don't think he should have won it last year? His stat line was:

30.1pts / 5.4rbnds / 6.7asts / 2.1stls / 50% fg / 45% 3pt

He won the scoring title as well as led the league in steals and ft%. Oh and he led his team to an nba record 73 wins.

Cmon man, he was unanimous MVP for a reason.

Lebron was still much much better. Curry has never been the best player in the leaguw.

 

[TheComebackKid]

The face of the league is about just marketability, that's why you don't consider Kareem there even tho after Jordan he's considered the best by many. Despite the Mvps Duncan was never the face. The face of the league was always perimeter players with shaq being the exception cause of his strong personality. Face of the league is so people care and watch that doesn't show greatness, kawhi will never be the face, too quiet and subdued no matter his greatness.

Perhaps I chose poor phrasing. But what I mean is what I explained. Tim was considered the greatest forward of all time for at least half of his career. Kareem was considered a level above everyone from the very beginning of his career.

If you write the story of the NBA you could basically break it down into 7 chapters:

Mikan/Cousy/Pettit

Russell/Chamberlain

Kareem/Dr. J

Magic/Bird

Jordan

Kobe/Shaq/Duncan

Lebron

I love Hakeem but he would be a small part in Jordan's chapter.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I loved Grant land and 30 for 30 but I always thought Simmons was horrible on TV and the radio.

I found it very amusing when his HBO show flopped.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Lebron was still much much better. Curry has never been the best player in the leaguw.

Well I wouldn't particularly argue with that but he did have the better year last year.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Perhaps I chose poor phrasing. But what I mean is what I explained. Tim was considered the greatest forward of all time for at least half of his career. Kareem was considered a level above everyone from the very beginning of his career.

If you write the story of the NBA you could basically break it down into 7 chapters:

Mikan/Cousy/Pettit

Russell/Chamberlain

Kareem/Dr. J

Magic/Bird

Jordan

Kobe/Shaq/Duncan

Lebron

I love Hakeem but he would be a small part in Jordan's chapter.

But still the only big I'd take over him is Wilt

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

Next to no credit? He was the 6th man of the year that year lol. That means he was recognized as the best bench player in the league.

Now I do agree that Walton is often overrated. I don't even have him in my top 10 Centers all time. But...I do give the man credit for what he did accomplish. Leading a team to an NBA title and winning the Finals MVP is a big deal. Winning the league MVP is is huge. Leading the league is rebounds and blocks is impressive. Winning the 6th man of the year award while helping a team win another title isn't bad either. Then you throw in his college career and it's a no brainer.

he did rebound and block shots well for a few years. and 6th man is nice, but lets face it, you usually are a sixth man because you are not good enough to start (there are exceptions, but not here). again, i am not saying he didnt have a nice career. i am saying in the pros he probably was not a hall of famer. it took those incredible college years. now if he had stayed healthy, it would be clearly different. also, he was hurt a little because of the expectations he had coming into the pros

 

[gspieler]

His MVPs are worth about as much as Nash's

Nas took the Suns from a lottery draft team to a 60 win team, within a season. And when Stoudamire went down, they still won 60. Was Nash ever the absolute best player in the league? No. But MVP is has never been about that. It's about who's easiest to make a case for, in the context of that season.

Perhaps I chose poor phrasing. But what I mean is what I explained. Tim was considered the greatest forward of all time for at least half of his career. Kareem was considered a level above everyone from the very beginning of his career.

If you write the story of the NBA you could basically break it down into 7 chapters:

Mikan/Cousy/Pettit

Russell/Chamberlain

Kareem/Dr. J

Magic/Bird

Jordan

Kobe/Shaq/Duncan

Lebron

I love Hakeem but he would be a small part in Jordan's chapter.

That's because MJ away arguably the only player in history who was bigger than the game itself. And Hakeem was the second-most noteworthy player in an era that included the GOAT.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Nas took the Suns from a lottery draft team to a 60 win team, within a season. And when Stoudamire went down, they still won 60. Was Nash ever the absolute best player in the league? No. But MVP is has never been about that. It's about who's easiest to make a case for, in the context of that season.



That's because MJ away arguably the only player in history who was bigger than the game itself. And Hakeem was the second-most noteworthy player in an era that included the GOAT.

Wilt was bigger than the game

 

[gspieler]

Wilt was bigger than the game