(( Myth )): Izzy is "Better Technically" than Alex ... Not So

[drbolony]

"Only speed and movement", lol. I mean you're a lot more thoughtful than most Sherdogs? Sherdoggy's? But you're only accounting for offense and I know because you put all of Izzy's footwork under the umbrella of "movement". Sound like someone? Yeah Joe Rogan. No mention of timing, ranges, set ups, feints, and just overall trickery.

You give props to Periera for "walking through" Israel's offense and not actually negating it. That tell's me that you approve of Periera getting hit as long he gets his licks in. You put no stock into defense whatsoever. Fights aren't fought completely in the pocket and Periera had to fight hard to get there. It wasn't until Periera took out Izzy's "movement" ,as you say, that Alex secured the fight for himself.

The sequence you speak about in the 5th with the "cross through the guard" Weasel bullshit that everyone parrots didn't hurt Izzy until his leg were compromised. Alex took out his greatest weapon, he did that in a tough fight that he was losing and was almost finished in. That said, he didn't display he was the superior striker.

The superior striker doesn't need a 5 Rd pep talk ala Leon Edwards to win the fight. As Teddy Atlas likes to say, Periera found his "geography" (got into the pocket) after taking away Adesanya's greatest asset, his legs.

Perhaps you have been striking for awhile, but I offer you this, with your complete disregard for defense, maybe you're a certain kind of striker. The kind that usually don't have long careers if they did this full time. If you were a striking teacher you wouldn't/shouldn't be allowed around kids (not like that sherbronies).

@IronGolem007

Interesting take on it.

It was also a technical adjustment by Alex to throw the right cross through Izzy's guard, when he knew Izzy would go for a clinch, which setup the ending.

I saw that Weasel video too

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

This post is alittle more suspect then your O.P...

Seems to me , your fanboying alittle abit when it comes to Alex...

Suspect? Am I not allowed to be a fan?

Izzy is not afraid to trade ,he proved that in the Kelvin and Whittaker fights, he just understands against stronger opponents u cant stay stationary which is just great fighting IQ..and what you should do.....you should never be standing and banging with guys like Romero or Alex ...that just not intelligent ... Fighting is an iq test of the highest order

"Standing and trading" with men 6" shorter than you isn't all that impressive.

Izzy is always moving backward — when he gets in brief exchanges, he quickly stops and runs.

Izzy is talented, yes ... but I happen to prefer champions that make other people run.

Alex is forever stalking his foe. Even in the rare instances when he backs, and circles, he quickly changes that and looks for the finish.

I've never seen Alex intentionally point-fight.

Alot of what your saying for what makes him more technical comes off as saying he has more physicality then Izzy and thats true and no one is arguing that...but i dont see where your proving hes more technically sound ..he was losing on every single card heading into the last round and had he not caught Izzy he would of a lost decision to Izzy in a fight where izzy rocked him and out pointed him..

Yes and more.

We agree Alex has more physicality than Izzy, as well as more technical acumen.

I think you're confusing speed with technical skill.

Alex's game plan was to check kicks, execute his own leg kicks, and execute a fistic and kicking body attack. To systematically walk down, and break down, Adesanya ... and save the KO for later.

No one could possibly expect Alex to "out-speed" Adesanya ... what Pereira needed to do was outlast Adesanya, breaking him down, and slowing him down, which is exactly what he did. All

Kuddos to Alex for pulling out the 5th round stoppage like Leon did against Usman .. he earned that belt for sure.

Yes, Alex deserves all the kudos in the world.

And even Alex said, Adesanya deserves his kudos as well. It was a hell of a fight, and a hell of an effort, by both fighters.

Im just not seeing proof of technical superiority only that Alex is a bigger (much bigger) boy who can hang in the pocket with anyone cuz of it (aka juggernaut) and hits hard...nothing about the finish said technical to me...he just exploded in on a stationary izzy ...

Alex has better, more devastating punches. Better leg kicks, better leg checks. Better knees and flying knees. Better right cross, better left hook.

Izzy is good with these as well, but not as good.

To that, Alex adds power, poise, and dogged determination. He's in there to kick your ass, not win on points.

Also, speaking of technique, Izzy lost all technique in the end. Hands down, bent over, no clinching, no movement.

He was beaten and he was done. Nowhere to run, didn't even go down swinging — just trying to "hide his head" ... in a semi-conscious state.

 

[snugglecakes]

Many have probably been thinking the same thing. Izzy can score pitter patter pillow shots all he wants early on… if it were a video game Izzy’s HP bar was always going down faster than Alex. it doesn’t appear that way to many because izzy is goin for more headshots early on while Alex works body n legs

once Alex has decided it’s time to focus upstairs after Izzy has been worn out enough at the legs n body then it’s the beginning of the end for izzy and it can look like izzy was up multiple rounds all you want as many times as you wanna rematch… Alex likely wins by championship round stoppage again. I suspect the grappling gap will be closer and closer each time they fight

 

[Wonderfight]

I might add that you are talking about a lot of things which have nothing to do with technique, like chin and reach. Also his will and willingness to take a shot are not proofs of good technique, you could say it shows the opposite. Him walking and eating shots is super impressive, but it is sign of bad fight iq and technique. He can just get away with it. It is the reason he looks average a lot of the time, even against guys who re not Izzy's caliber (not counting Strickland who showed 0 technique and fight iq).

You are talking about a lot of what makes people like him, but not a lot about of what makes him a technical fighter. And you really can't because no great technical fighter has holes as big and as often as Alex.

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

I might add that you are talking about a lot of things which have nothing to do with technique, like chin and reach. Also his will and willingness to take a shot are not proofs of good technique, you could say it shows the opposite. Him walking and eating shots is super impressive, but it is sign of bad fight iq and technique. He can just get away with it. It is the reason he looks average a lot of the time, even against guys who re not Izzy's caliber (not counting Strickland who showed 0 technique and fight iq).

I agree these are different things. I don't mean to call willingness to brawl "technique" — but were watching fighting, after all.

The willingness to brawl = fighting ... while the propensity to run is something else.

By technique, I mean proper, leveraged punches, kicks, and knees.

IMO, Izzy is so often "moving away" that he doesn't execute any of these to their best effect, whereas Alex plants his feet and executes all of these with bad intentions.

While Alex's left hook is his legendary punch, the fact is he has knocked people out with right crosses, kicks, and knees as well.

He literally has knockout power in all four limbs, but his left is on another level from everyone in the sport.

This type of power only comes from proper technique (meaning execution, timing, and thrown with leverage).

Hitting somebody "with natural speed" doesn't have the same affect as hitting someone with perfection in execution, timing, and leverage.

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

Perhaps you have been striking for awhile, but I offer you this, with your complete disregard for defense, maybe you're a certain kind of striker. The kind that usually don't have long careers if they did this full time. If you were a striking teacher you wouldn't/shouldn't be allowed around kids (not like that sherbronies).

I don't have a complete disregard for defense; I have a preference for those whose devastating offense is their defense.

 

[drbolony]

I don't have a complete disregard for defense; I have a preference for those whose devastating offense is their defense.

Yet you talk about "walking through Izzy's shots". Great advice, sus.

You prefer pocket fighters and punchers, in a big boxing fan too, where these kinds of things are held in high regard. He does have good punch technique, he does get great leverage in his punches, he does have great instincts in the pocket. The same things that got him in trouble against Izzy (kickboxing) gets him in trouble in other striking arts. In boxing against boxers (not punchers) and in MT against Muay Femur.

Alex is a great striker, but he is not complete and definitely not better than Israel Adesanya.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Suspect? Am I not allowed to be a fan?




"Standing and trading" with men 6" shorter than you isn't all that impressive.

Izzy is always moving backward — when he gets in brief exchanges, he quickly stops and runs.

Izzy is talented, yes ... but I happen to prefer champions that make other people run.

Alex is forever stalking his foe. Even in the rare instances when he backs, and circles, he quickly changes that and looks for the finish.

I've never seen Alex intentionally point-fight.




Yes and more.

We agree Alex has more physicality than Izzy, as well as more technical acumen.

I think you're confusing speed with technical skill.

Alex's game plan was to check cakes, execute leg kicks, and execute a body attack. To systematically walk down, and break down, Adesanya.

No one could possibly expect Alex to "out-speed" Adesanya ... what Pereira needed to do was outlast Adesanya, breaking him down, and slowing him down, which is exactly what he did. All




Yes, Alex deserves all the kudos in the world.

And even Alex said, Adesanya deserves his kudos as well. It was a hell of a fight, and a hell of an effort, by both fighters.





Alex has better, more devastating punches. Better leg kicks, better leg checks. Better knees and flying knees. Better right cross, better left hook.

Izzy is good with these as well, but not as good.

To that, Alex adds power, poise, and dogged determination. He's in there to kick your ass, not win on points.

Also, speaking of technique, Izzy lost all technique in the end. Hands down, bent over, no clinching, no movement.

He was beaten and he was done. Nowhere to run, didn't even go down swinging — just trying to "hide his head" ... in a semi-conscious state.

Im not the one confused with what technique means...

Things like willing to take shots or devastating strikes isnt technical superiority..

This is where your bias shows... things like Izzy is always backing up or i prefer champs who go forward..saying he has a better chin has nothing to do with technique

That's great but that's your opinion and again doesn't show who's more technical..

Ask yourself these questions

Who has better footwork
Izzy

Better head movement
Izzy

Whos jabs and straights are straighter?
Izzy

Who has move fluidity/variety in their attacks
Izzy

Who has more power
Alex

Who controls distance better

Izzy/could be a tie as there both long but Izzy uses angles to maintain it while Alex walks forward ( again angles are more technically sound then walking into shots)

Whos faster strike wise
Izzy

Whos kicks have good snap and technique
Izzy / alex

Knees
Alex

Hooks
Alex because of the power but form wise he throws them alot different then traditional hooks but his left hook is his best weapon .

Fight iq
Izzy... Again Izzy found his chin first and by all means was well on his way to a decision victory from fighting smart before getting caught ...again walking into shots doesnt show iq ..it shows toughness but not iq .

I called u suspect because of your boxing before there was a UFC comment , as what would a boxer from the 80s truly understand about kickboxing/mma striking in 2022...not saying its impossible just a strange comment to make as there different sports and neither guy is a boxer... Alex has some experience boxing but hes clearly a muay thai fighter

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

Yet you talk about "walking through Izzy's shots". Great advice, sus.

That's not advice on technique, that's an observation concerning mettle.

A fighter who is "affected" by shots early is usually "caught cold" ... and when he's able to walk through the same shots later is an observation as to his condition.

You're the one confusing this with "advice on technique" rather than being an observation as as to constitution.

 

[drbolony]

That's not advice on technique, that's an observation concerning mettle.

A fighter who is "affected" by shots early is usually "caught cold" ... and when he's able to walk through the same shots later is an observation as to his condition.

You're the one confusing this with "advice on technique" rather than being an observation as as to constitution.

Tbf fair, I added a lot more to my post.

Regardless you're no different than the rest of Sherdog, despite your use of striking terms and seeming understanding of punching technique. At it's root your whole argument is Alex has great chin and power, lol same shit these glue huffers parrot.

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

Im not the one confused with what technique means...

Things like willing to take shots or devastating strikes isnt technical superiority..

This is where your bias shows... things like Izzy is always backing up or i prefer champs who go forward..saying he has a better chin has nothing to do with technique

That's great but that's your opinion and again doesn't show who's more technical..

Ask yourself these questions

Who has better footwork
Izzy

Better head movement
Izzy

Whos jabs and straights are straighter?
Izzy

Who has move fluidity/variety in their attacks
Izzy

Who has more power
Alex

Who controls distance better

Izzy/could be a tie as there both long but Izzy uses angles to maintain it while Alex walks forward ( again angles are more technically sound then walking into shots)

Whos faster strike wise
Izzy

Whos kicks have good snap and technique
Izzy / alex

Knees
Alex

Hooks
Alex because of the power but form wise he throws them alot different then traditional hooks but his left hook is his best weapon .

Fight iq
Izzy... Again Izzy found his chin first and by all means was well on his way to a decision victory from fighting smart before getting caught ...again walking into shots doesnt show iq ..it shows toughness but not iq .

I called u suspect because of your boxing before there was a UFC comment , as what would a boxer from the 80s truly understand about kickboxing/mma striking in 2022...not saying its impossible just a strange comment to make as there different sports and neither guy is a boxer... Alex has some experience boxing but hes clearly a muay thai fighter

I'm not going to address the multitude of strawmen you've intentionally built.

The ability to take punches is physicality, not technique. In no universe, or sentence, did I call this technique.

It's just an enhancement of the better man that Alex Pereira is than the flimsier Israel Adesanya.

If you review my original post, Pereira struck Adesanya more times than Adesanya struck Pereira.

I'm not talking about head shots only, I'm talking about leg kicks + body shots + head shots. Adesanya hit Pereira "in the head" more (early), but Pereira hit Adesanya to the legs and body more — and more total strikes overall.

When was the last time that happened Adesanya, in any capacity?

And I think we can all agree, in the end, Pereira hit Adesanya more everywhere.

The end is what counts, not the beginning.

Israel Adesanya is flashier than Alex Pereira, but Pereira was more effective than Adesanya.

I think if you really watch the leg kicks, the leg checks, the body shots, the clinching, and all of the subtle nuances — Pereira was miles more technical and superior than Adesanya.

If you only watch "the running" and "the head shots" then I guess that's all you're seeing.

But Pereira was killing Adesanya to the body and legs, out-muscling him and out-striking him in the clinches, and was systematically breaking down Adesanya.

Another poster on here mentioned "the energy level bar" ... and Alex was capable of knocking out another fighter when this was done, whereas Adesanya had to be held up.

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

Tbf fair, I added a lot more to my post.

Regardless you're no different than the rest of Sherdog, despite your use of striking terms and seeming understanding of punching technique. At it's root your whole argument is Alex has great chin and power, lol same shit these glue huffers parrot.

Why are you being insulting?

You don't have the mentality to disagree without being insulting?

Read the post I just made above.

If you think Alex was the only dual-Champion in Glory, and just KO'd and defeated (the previously undefeated) Adesanya ... because of "chin and power" then you're the one who's the Shertard.

Pereira has exceptional technique, and perfect leverage/torque in his execution. This is what generates the power.

Throwing something "fast" doesn't mean it's thrown properly, with leverage, or will do anything to the person who's hit.

Only throwing a punch correctly, feet planted properly, legs/hips torqued with perfect timing, generates the kind of KO power that Pereira has.

 

[nintey]

People won't stop talking about this fight. I guess there actually is a market for the rematch.

 

[GoshiShun17]

People won't stop talking about this fight. I guess there actually is a market for the rematch.

It was very entertaining and very high level technique on display. There was 4 and 1/2 rounds of back and forth, fairly high paced action, capped off by a finish. No sloppy shit. What more can we ask for?

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I'm not going to address the multitude of strawmen you've intentionally built.

The ability to take punches his physicality, not technique. In no universe, or sentence, did I call this technique.

It's just an enhancement of the better man that Alex Pereira is then the flimsier Israel Adesanya.

If you review my original post, Pereira struck Adesanya more times than Adesanya struck Pereira.

I'm not talking about head shots only, I'm talking about leg kicks + body shots + head shots. Adesanya hit Pereira "in the head" more (early), but Pereira hit Adesanya to the legs and body more — and more total strikes overall.

When was the last time that happened Adesanya, in any capacity?

And I think we can all agree, in the end, Pereira hit Adesanya more everywhere.

The end is what counts, not the beginning.

Israel Adesanya is flashier than Alex Pereira, but Pereira was more effective than Adesanya.

I think if you really watch the leg kicks, the leg checks, the body shots, the clinching, and all of the subtle nuances — Pereira was miles more technical and superior than Adesanya.

If you only watch "the running" and "the head shots" then I guess that's all you're seeing.

But Pereira was killing Adesanya to the body and legs, out-muscling him and out-striking him in the clinches, and was systematically breaking down Adesanya.

Another poster on here mentioned "the energy level bar" ... and Alex was capable of knocking out another fighter when this was done, whereas Adesanya had to be held up.

Strawman? Me??

Please define the word technique for us all , as it pertains to striking as u see it ..

Because im honestly curious now if my list of actual technique driven assessments is deemed Strawman by you..

What exactly is technique to you?


Im beginning to scratch my head at this and your so called expert credentials...

Please enlighten me/us

Spoiler: Edit

Post from your real account ur being exposed in each post not just with my own

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

Strawman? Me??

Feigned innocence is ubecoming.

Please define the word technique for us all , as it pertains to striking as u see it ..

Because im honestly curious now if my list of actual technique driven assessments is deemed Strawman by you.

What exactly is technique to you?

Your confusion stems from you continually blurring speed/reflexes with technique, that's your problem.

Izzy has speed/reflexes like few others. No one is denying that.

Actual technique, when it comes to striking, is independent of speed and reflexes.

• Proper technique involves foot placement, hip torque, balance, timing, and execution (placement) — whether it is thrown quickly or ponderously.

Pereira is not slow, per se, but he's nowhere near as fast as Izzy.

However, he throws with devastating leverage and therefore technique — while Izzy runs around, leans back while he's throwing forward, and does not have the same technique as does Alex.

Im beginning to scratch my head at this and your so called expert credentials...

Scratch your head, or scratch or nuts, has nothing to do with this discussion.

You seem to have a big ego, like Izzy, which perhaps explains your attraction to him.

Please enlighten me/us

Me/us?

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

 

[drbolony]

Why are you being insulting?

You don't have the mentality to disagree without being insulting?

Read the post I just made above.

If you think Alex was the only dual-Champion in Glory, and just KO'd and defeated (the previously undefeated) Adesanya ... because of "chin and power" then you're the one who's the Shertard.

Pereira has exceptional technique, and perfect leverage/torque in his execution. This is what generates the power.

Throwing something "fast" doesn't mean it's thrown properly, with leverage, or will do anything to the person who's hit.

Only throwing a punch correctly, feet planted properly, legs/hips torqued with perfect timing, generates the kind of KO power that Pereira has.

Calling Sherbronies glue huffers? Not directing at you man, chill.

Brb, having breakfast with the fam.

Happy Thanksgiving Sherbros

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Feigned innocence is ubecoming.




Your confusion stems from you continually blurring speed/reflexes with technique, that's your problem.

Izzy has speed/reflexes like few others. No one is denying that.

Actual technique, when it comes to striking, is independent of speed and reflexes.

• Proper technique involves foot placement, hip torque, balance, timing, and execution (placement) — whether it is thrown quickly or ponderously.

Pereira is not slow, per se, but he's nowhere near as fast as Izzy.

However, he throws with devastating leverage and therefore technique — while Izzy runs around, leans back while he's throwing forward, and does not have the same technique as does Alex.




Scratch your head, or scratch or nuts, has nothing to do with this discussion.

You seem to have a big ego, like Izzy, which perhaps explains your attraction to him.




Me/us?

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

From your own sport and your expertise base..

https://shortboxing.com/what-is-technical-boxing-all-you-need-to-know-about-this-style/

Have a read tell me which fighter that sounds like...

Cuz it aint Alex .

Both guys are extremely skilled...dont get me wrong , and have particular skill sets/attributes that play off well with each other and is why their fights are so competitive .. and good

But the simple fact remains , Izzy is a technical fighter and Alex is a juggernaut/boxer brawler..

Think George Foreman vs Mohammed Ali ...

Foreman had ungodly power, and was okay technique wise but mostly won because he could sit and trade and kill guys with any shot...

Whereas Mohammed had alot more tools he used to beat guys....

Except in this reality Foreman beats Ali...hence the insanity of the moment

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

Calling Sherbronies glue huffers? Not directing at you man, chill.

Brb, having breakfast with the fam.

Happy Thanksgiving Sherbros

Happy Thanksgving!

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

From your own sport and your expertise base..

https://shortboxing.com/what-is-technical-boxing-all-you-need-to-know-about-this-style/

Have a read tell me which fighter that sounds like...

Cuz it aint Alex .

Both guys are extremely skilled...dont get me wrong , and have particular skill sets/attributes that play off well with each other and is why their fights are so competitive .. and good

But the simple fact remains , Izzy is a technical fighter and Alex is a juggernaut/boxer brawler..

Think George Foreman vs Mohammed Ali ...

Foreman had ungodly power, and was okay technique wise but mostly won because he could sit and trade and kill guys with any shot...

Whereas Mohammed had alot more tools he used to beat guys....

Except in this reality Foreman beats Ali...hence the insanity of the moment

I understand your analogy of Foreman vs. Ali — but the difference was Ali had more balls than Adesanya.

Never saw Ali straight run from anyone. He would also rope-a-dope and take punches to give punches.

Since you seem to be an old timer also, you might also remember that Ali was criticized for having "poor boxing technique," but his speed/timing/reflexes were otherworldly.

He also had a granite chin.

To be fair, Adesanya also has a pretty stout chin.
The only man whose ever put him down happens to be Pereira.

The differences, I don't think Adesanya has the physicality of Ali. Just the speed.

Mohammed Ali was a once-in-a-lifetime fighter and multi-champion; Israel Adesanya is an outstanding fighter, and a UFC champion.

But Alex Pereira is actually a once-in-a-lifetime fighter, and a multi-Champion, unlike Adesanya.

Kind of a cross between Foreman/Ali — with his own unique structure and physicality.

It's a hell of a rivalry between Alex and Izzy, that's for sure.

I'm out for now, Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.