MW through LHW-where is everyone?

[xelad1]

Who are the potential big up and comers in these divisions? LW and WW seem to have talent for days, with every generation there is a whole new crop of freaks.

LW you have these crazy talented athletes like Pettis and Bendo and it makes me feel like LHW should have 3 versions of Jon Jones.

The only logical answer I can give is MMA losing out on taller athletes to all the big team sports but still. There have to be more future stars that I'm just not picking up on. LHW used to be on of the most talent rich divisions.

Jones is already on his way to cleaning out his entire division with only Gustaf and potentially Davis waiting in the wings. This isn't just about Jones being ahead of the pack, however. Jones is ushering in his new generation, yet there aren't many decent fighters around his age to be found with "new" skillsets.


Am I missing something here?

 

[Grimm911]

Pettis and Bendo both have looked beatable.

You basically answered your own question with Gustafsson and Davis (which I would put Glover and Hendo in there as well).

WW has: Hendricks and Rory, with Maia in the background
LW: Melendez whenever he comes over and Maynard

MW has competition too. Weidman and Lombard (after his last performance)

 

[BrazilianDude]

There are more people for Jones. If Glover beats Rampage, he`s probably in line for a shot. Also Hendo.

I agree LW has been producing a huge amount of talent very quickly, as are other lighter weight classes.

 

[Lethal_Striker]

A dominant champion makes a division appear weaker then it really is. When you have a bunch of guys hot potatoeing the title like back when Rampage, Forrest, Rashad, Machida and Shogun doesn't mean the division was better at that time. It's just that now we have a truly great fighter in the division while in the past you just had a division of a bunch of really good fighters but no dominant fighters. All of those guys who were really good back then are still around, they're just not at the top anymore.

 

[xelad1]

Pettis and Bendo both have looked beatable.

You basically answered your own question with Gustafsson and Davis (which I would put Glover in there as well).

WW has: Hendricks and Rory, with Maia in the background
LW: Melendez whenever he comes over and Maynard

MW has competition too. Weidman and Lombard (after his last performance)

I wouldn't put Glover in there. The dude is 33 already and not yet in the top 10. I'm not saying Pettis and Bendo aren't unbeatable, but rather that they are arguably a "new breed" of fighter like Jones. They are both incredibly well rounded for their ages and seem to get immensly better every fight ala GSP in his prime or Jones.

WW has Hendricks and Rory, but that isn't counting how damn good most of the other fighters are. Alves, Kamp, Ellenberger etc.

MW again has comp but Weidman is literally the only interesting "prospect". Lombard has been fighting for ages and clearly won't be dethroning Anderson anytime soon.

Essentially LW is comparable to what LHW was when all the fighters were in their prime. You have a whole pool of people that are literally good enough to knock each other off. And yet the "new era" in LHW hasn't seemed to usher in that kind of modern talent.

 

[xelad1]

A dominant champion makes a division appear weaker then it really is. When you have a bunch of guys hot potatoeing the title like back when Rampage, Forrest, Rashad, Machida and Shogun doesn't mean the division was better at that time. It's just that now we have a truly great fighter in the division while in the past you just had a division of a bunch of really good fighters but no dominant fighters. All of those guys who were really good back then are still around, they're just not at the top anymore.

I don't ascribe to this theory. I'm talking about a real side by side comparison of the talent.

For example while GSP dominates his opponents from bell to bell there is no denying the depth of the WW talent pool even with him being a cut above the modern generation. Not to mention there are plenty of interesting and exciting prospects on the rise.

I'm not saying having titleholders change indicates a division's talent level, however those fighters were for all intents and purposes from the "old guard". They were the cream of the crop in their primes. Yes there is a truly dominant fighter in the form of Jones, but usually there is a parallel generation following not too far behind and I just don't see it.

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

A dominant champion makes a division appear weaker then it really is. When you have a bunch of guys hot potatoeing the title like back when Rampage, Forrest, Rashad, Machida and Shogun doesn't mean the division was better at that time. It's just that now we have a truly great fighter in the division while in the past you just had a division of a bunch of really good fighters but no dominant fighters. All of those guys who were really good back then are still around, they're just not at the top anymore.

Agreed. Somehow this is an incredibly difficult concept to grasp for 99% of sherdoggers.

 

[xelad1]

Agreed. Somehow this is an incredibly difficult concept to grasp for 99% of sherdoggers.

That's because that concept isn't always relevant to the discussion no matter how many times people regurgitate it.

Yes a dominant champion makes the division look less competitive next to HIM. It doesn't, however, change the level of overall talent in the division.

Like I pointed out @ WW GSP has looked dominant, however there is a clear and distinct level of talent depth in that weight class. Much of it has to do with well rounded younger fighters moving up through the ranks.

Tell me where is the whole younger generation in MW and LHW. There is a reason Chael is the no. 2 MW and it isn't just because he's a great wrestler. A comparable fighter to Chael in WW or LW wouldn't do nearly as well.

I hope this isn't coming across as bashing. Silva is clearly phenomenal and so is Jones, I just wonder where is the next generation of fighters that seems to be appearing in other divisions.

 

[Sac423]

That's because that concept isn't always relevant to the discussion no matter how many times people regurgitate it.

Yes a dominant champion makes the division look less competitive next to HIM. It doesn't, however, change the level of overall talent in the division.

Like I pointed out @ WW GSP has looked dominant, however there is a clear and distinct level of talent depth in that weight class. Much of it has to do with well rounded younger fighters moving up through the ranks.

Tell me where is the whole younger generation in MW and LHW. There is a reason Chael is the no. 2 MW and it isn't just because he's a great wrestler. A comparable fighter to Chael in WW or LW wouldn't do nearly as well.

Uhh.....A p4p top 4 (Sonnen GSP, Jones, Cormier) MMA wrestler with amazing cardio and an iron chin won't do well in WW or LW?


(If anyone has a problem with the 4 I mentioned, I went by what majority of Sherdoggers I see, say have the best wrestling)

 

[Mark Andeya]

LW really isn't as stacked as people are making out to be. Around Bendo/Nate everyone was constantly saying that 155 is the most talent-rich division in the world, but frankly it isn't. Maybe if Alvarez and Melendez were fighting in the UFC, it would be, but as it stands, the wrestler rich 170 is way deeper than the flashy striker rich 155.

Regardless, both of them are much deeper than 205. Haha, I love shogun, but the notion that he was one fight away from a title shot a few months ago is testament to how empty of a division it is. All of the top contenders are old-guard sort of guys at this point, with a young champion who can effortlessly squash anyone of them. I really like Gustaffson, but I see a much greater talent disparity between him and Jones than I do between say, GSP and Rory MacDonald or Ben Henderson and say, idk, dos Anjos or somebody. Frankly, nobody at LHW is even close to Jones level and it's a joke of a division for the time being.

Middleweight though in my opinion has long been the recipient of unjust criticism. Anderson has long looked so dominant that it seemed MW had the same problem as LHW. But Anderson has such glaring weaknesses to his game that I don't think it's fair to say. It was definitely a not-so-stacked division for a long time, but not quite as terribly empty as some made it out to be. At the moment, we have Weidman, the Belfort/Bisping winner, and possibly Belcher who could all conceivably make for contenders in a few fights. Heck Boetsch is up there too. Middlweight isn't stacked like WW, but it's an alright division for the time being.

 

[xelad1]

Uhh.....A p4p top 4 (Sonnen GSP, Jones, Cormier) MMA wrestler with amazing cardio and an iron chin won't do well in WW or LW?


(If anyone has a problem with the 4 I mentioned, I went by what majority of Sherdoggers I see, say have the best wrestling)

Yes because Chael, gasp, has a limited skillset and hits like a fruit fly. WW is full of guys with good wrestling pedigrees, striking, and subs/sub defense.

I'm not debating Chael has great wrestling but where are all the other great wrestlers he's faced? And don't tell me Yushin Okami who is average at best and doesn't have any formal base in wrestling.

 

[xelad1]

LW really isn't as stacked as people are making out to be. Around Bendo/Nate everyone was constantly saying that 155 is the most talent-rich division in the world, but frankly it isn't. Maybe if Alvarez and Melendez were fighting in the UFC, it would be, but as it stands, the wrestler rich 170 is way deeper than the flashy striker rich 155.

Regardless, both of them are much deeper than 205. Haha, I love shogun, but the notion that he was one fight away from a title shot a few months ago is testament to how empty of a division it is. All of the top contenders are old-guard sort of guys at this point, with a young champion who can effortlessly squash anyone of them. I really like Gustaffson, but I see a much greater talent disparity between him and Jones than I do between say, GSP and Rory MacDonald or Ben Henderson and say, idk, dos Anjos or somebody. Frankly, nobody at LHW is even close to Jones level and it's a joke of a division for the time being.

Middleweight though in my opinion has long been the recipient of unjust criticism. Anderson has long looked so dominant that it seemed MW had the same problem as LHW. But Anderson has such glaring weaknesses to his game that I don't think it's fair to say. It was definitely a not-so-stacked division for a long time, but not quite as terribly empty as some made it out to be. At the moment, we have Weidman, the Belfort/Bisping winner, and possibly Belcher who could all conceivably make for contenders in a few fights. Heck Boetsch is up there too. Middlweight isn't stacked like WW, but it's an alright division for the time being.

In terms of well rounded fighters LW is very deep, I don't know what you're talking about. Deeper than WW is debatable but if guys like Bendo, Pettis, Maynard, Edgar etc. don't do it for then I don't know what to say. Just because a lot of the top LWs have a striking base doesn't mean they are somehow incomplete fighters. Pettis' wrestling has only looked suspect against Guida and it looked very good in every fight prior and after.

 

[Sac423]

Yes because Chael, gasp, has a limited skillset and hits like a fruit fly. WW is full of guys with good wrestling pedigrees, striking, and subs/sub defense.

I'm not debating Chael has great wrestling but where are all the other great wrestlers he's faced? And don't tell me Yushin Okami who is average at best and doesn't have any formal base in wrestling.

Hendricks has his left hook, and has good mma wrestling, his striking is decent and his JJ is untested. Nick Diaz has great boxing and great JJ but he's lacking in the wrestling department and kicking defense...


But what Im saying is:

Lots of guys have holes in their games and it seems Sonnen's only hole nowadays is that he doesn't have KO power, and isnt a great striker. Though his striking is unorthodox, his threat of wrestling makes him a fighter who doesnt get hit often. If there was a WW/LW that was exactly like Sonnen he'd be elite.




BTW Okami has great TDD, nobody has taken him down like Sonnen has

 

[Mark Andeya]

In terms of well rounded fighters LW is very deep, I don't know what you're talking about. Deeper than WW is debatable but if guys like Bendo, Pettis, Maynard, Edgar etc. don't do it for then I don't know what to say. Just because a lot of the top LWs have a striking base doesn't mean they are somehow incomplete fighters. Pettis' wrestling has only looked suspect against Guida and it looked very good in every fight prior and after.

I think I would actually disagree with you on that. In terms of well-rounded fighters, I feel that Henderson is kind of an outlier in the division. Maynard and Miller are exceptional grapplers with so-so striking, Edgar left the division, I mean, fair enough, Diaz has great strikes and fantastic submissions, but he's not much of a compelling contender anymore is he?

LW does have a lot of great fighters, but I just don't see the same kind of exceptional toughness WW has, with GSP, Fitch, Hendricks, Ellenberger and Story comprising the backbone of the division, and then handfuls of exceptional strikers like Condit, Kampmann, arguably Alves also in the mix. I understand that neither Diaz or MacDonald are really interesting challenges for GSP at this point, but they do bolster the depth of the division imo.