Muslim Vs. Non Muslim Rio Beach Volleyball!

[LucasWithLidOff]

Now the other players have covered up and played with similar outfits.....its good to see these two bringing the standard up

I agree. Muslim women seem to have a lot more self respect than western women.

 

[Squarechoke]

Its not a big deal. In fact the day after their match it got colder and several players wore the same outfits and no one said anything. There is a pressure on women to sexy up sport and its something several players from other sports has talked about. Blatter when he was head of Fifa suggested women should wear sexier clothing. And funny enough volleyball is the route he wanted to follow

Blatter said women's soccer needed different sponsors from the men's game and should try to attract fashion and cosmetics companies by featuring "more feminine uniforms."

"Tighter shorts, for example," Blatter told the Swiss newspaper SonntagsBlick. "In volleyball the women also wear other uniforms than the men. Pretty women are playing football today. Excuse me for saying that."

My point was that I don't really care what they wear in sports, so I agree. Both men and women should have some choices in what they can wear.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Not something that bothers me specifically about beach volleyball. We've had many cases where western women players have complained about how small their bikinis are, and that they've been forced to use them (the complaints might have led to change by now though, I don't follow the sport), so there can be bad things in both direction depending on the view.

I certainly don't approve of universal dress codes outside a sport though, especially when it's not equal for all within that society. Throw those clothes on the men as well and we'll see how long they last.

Egypt doesn't have any such dress code, at least not one imposed by the government.

That said both their and our societies have double standards when it comes to social conventions relating to gender and clothing. In places in the West that have laws against indecent exposure women are often held accountable for being topless whereas a man might not. And I wonder if a man working at an office would keep his job for long if he went to work in a pencil skirt everyday.

Men and women dress differently and thus have different standards. The problem in the Islamic world is that often only one gender faces severe repercussions for breaking the taboos and social conventions.

Its not a big deal. In fact the day after their match it got colder and several players wore the same outfits and no one said anything. There is a pressure on women to sexy up sport and its something several players from other sports has talked about. Blatter when he was head of Fifa suggested women should wear sexier clothing. And funny enough volleyball is the route he wanted to follow

Blatter said women's soccer needed different sponsors from the men's game and should try to attract fashion and cosmetics companies by featuring "more feminine uniforms."

"Tighter shorts, for example," Blatter told the Swiss newspaper SonntagsBlick. "In volleyball the women also wear other uniforms than the men. Pretty women are playing football today. Excuse me for saying that."

I like the way this Blatter guy thinks

 

[dissolved]

I agree. Muslim women seem to have a lot more self respect than western women.

I don't really agree with this. I've seen Muslim women look down their noses severely at women who aren't modest to "their standards" and it irks me (especially the hair-covering thing which isn't even remotely a sexual thing except by Aisha's standards [so that Muhammad wouldn't molest her]). Much of Muslim women's shtick is externally or environmentally imposed on them and truth be told had they not been born into their cult they would dress similarly to everyone else. All I see is self-righteousness in Muslim women's garb.

That said, I do get a bit tired of the constant bombardment of over-the-top sexual dress in The West. I was thinking just the other day that a woman can dress attractively yet modestly at the same time. She can even show some of her figure so that a man knows she's not a slob under it all. But it's a fine line really. Some women do it better than others. I know plenty of women who walk that line really well.

Anywho, I agree with most everything you say, but I do disagree with the generalization that Muslim women have a lot more self-respect.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I don't really agree with this. I've seen Muslim women look down their noses severely at women who aren't modest to "their standards" and it irks me (especially the hair-covering thing which isn't even remotely a sexual thing except by Aisha's standards [so that Muhammad wouldn't molest her]). Much of Muslim women's shtick is externally or environmentally imposed on them and truth be told had they not been born into their cult they would dress similarly to everyone else. All I see is self-righteousness in Muslim women's garb.

That said, I do get a bit tired of the constant bombardment of over-the-top sexual dress in The West. I was thinking just the other day that a woman can dress attractively yet modestly at the same time. She can even show some of her figure so that a man knows she's not a slob under it all. But it's a fine line really. Some women do it better than others. I know plenty of women who walk that line really well.

Anywho, I agree with most everything you say, but I do disagree with the generalization that Muslim women have a lot more self-respect.

Covering one's hair is not unique to Islam. Nuns do it and so do some more traditional Jewish women so this conception of modesty crosses religious lines even if nowadays its associated mostly with Islam.

I understand it to an extent but I also see what you're saying and I've said as much before. To me the veil, especially in the West, is more about virtue signaling and identity then about the hair itself and its immodesty. Its more about showing how religion is important to that person's daily life in a similar way that something like wearing a cross might. Neither practice, as far as I know, is something that's actually mandated by the religion in clear terms. But within the current social milieu they serve that function.

And I don't see it as too much of a bad thing. Expressing oneself through one's choice in clothing or jewelry is hardly uncommon so it should surprise no one that some among us with to express their religious identity through certain choices in clothing. And there can be a lot of variation. There's a big difference between this

and this

 

[ShinkanPo]

Covering one's hair is not unique to Islam. Nuns do it and so do some more traditional Jewish women so this conception of modesty crosses religious lines even if nowadays its associated mostly with Islam.

I understand it to an extent but I also see what you're saying and I've said as much before. To me the veil, especially in the West, is more about virtue signaling and identity then about the hair itself and its immodesty. Its more about showing how religion is important to that person's daily life in a similar way that something like wearing a cross might. Neither practice, as far as I know, is something that's actually mandated by the religion in clear terms. But within the current social milieu they serve that function.

And I don't see it as too much of a bad thing. Expressing oneself through one's choice in clothing or jewelry is hardly uncommon so it should surprise no one that some among us with to express their religious identity through certain choices in clothing. And there can be a lot of variation. There's a big difference between this

and this

Who knows the woman under that shroud could be super sexy cute...

 

[Islam Imamate]

Who knows the woman under that shroud could be super sexy cute...

Maybe so but she sure as hell isn't expressing herself much.

This reminds me of something I read somewhere about how supposedly purses are a big deal in Saudi Arabia because the women have no other way of expressing themselves and their status and taste.

 

[dissolved]

Covering one's hair is not unique to Islam. Nuns do it and so do some more traditional Jewish women so this conception of modesty crosses religious lines even if nowadays its associated mostly with Islam.

In catholicism it isn't imposed externally. If a nun wants to cover her hair its of her own doing 99% of the time.

I understand it to an extent but I also see what you're saying and I've said as much before. To me the veil, especially in the West, is more about virtue signaling and identity then about the hair itself and its immodesty. Its more about showing how religion is important to that person's daily life in a similar way that something like wearing a cross might. Neither practice, as far as I know, is something that's actually mandated by the religion in clear terms. But within the current social milieu they serve that function.

And I don't see it as too much of a bad thing. Expressing oneself through one's choice in clothing or jewelry is hardly uncommon so it should surprise no one that some among us with to express their religious identity through certain choices in clothing. And there can be a lot of variation. There's a big difference between this

and this

Unfortunately I can't see the pictures.

And I can not accept the covering of a woman's hair as virtuous except for what I described as self-imposed for one's own commitment without coersion.

Song of Solomon describes a hard-working virtuous female. I recall no head-cover involved.

When Paul spoke of ceremonial head-coverings during assembly and worship it was ceremonial only and wasn't a part of every day apparel.

So generally I am 110% against it except for rare occasions by decision of the female involved without even the slightest coersion whatsoever.

 

[Islam Imamate]

So generally I am 110% against it except for rare occasions by decision of the female involved without even the slightest coersion whatsoever.

Why? We use soft social coercion all the time on both men and women and conventions surrounding appropriate clothing are no exception. IMO as long as its not coercion that goes as far as to invoke state power, violence, or total to severe social isolation I don't see the problem with a culture of modesty however restrictive. We shouldn't ask that people accept us and our choices as right, only tolerate them.

EDIT: I feel like I've been misusing the term "coercion" which does imply the use of force or the threat of it so I will say I agree with you and replace "coercion" in my post with "persuasion" which doesn't necessarily imply use of force or the threat of it.

 

[Thai Domi]

some Tusken Raider in Egypt got to rub one out admiring those hot ankles

Genuine lost