Mueller's Patton the back (investigation thread v. 22)

[Scrody]

@waiguoren is gankin on fools in here. Sheesh.

I go to lots of different sources for my information. My mind is plenty open. But I will not go near those who are regularly shown to manufacture falsehoods. Your reading comprehension is obviously shit, as is your ability to reason, so I don't expect you to understand the false equivalency you're trying to concoct, but you can stop talking down to your betters any time now.

If Fox news gets something right, do you still ignore it like it's not true?

 

[waiguoren]

PAPADOPOULOS GOES AFTER AUSSIE DIPLOMAT WHO SPARKED COLLUSION PROBE

• Former Trump campaign aide George Papadopoulos accused former Australian diplomat Alexander Downer of setting him up during the 2016 presidential campaign.
• Downer helped spark the FBI’s collusion probe after sharing details of a May 2016 conversation he had with Papadopoulos in London.
• Downer dismissed Papadopoulos’s allegations.

Full article


Unless I'm missing something, we still don't know when Comey/FBI opened the Trump/Russia investigation and what specifically (Carter Page? Papadopolous? Both?) led to the investigation being opened.

 

[Andy Capp]

@waiguoren is gankin on fools in here. Sheesh.

If Fox news gets something right, do you still ignore it like it's not true?

That's not the point. That you seem to believe so makes you as lacking in the ability to reason as he is.

 

[Gandhi]

I think that's extremely hard to determine. But it's surely non-zero.

I would agree, but I think the impact of turnout drop would be larger absent some hard evidence that the level of suppression had increased dramatically from 2012.

I found this article of interest although no conclusive of anything

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...as-a-record-number-of-americans-cast-ballots/

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

I never disagreed with your analysis.

I was amused that the MSM's narrative was debunked again.

Most people don't go as deeply as we do. They only look at headlines and narratives. I don't really care about Butina. If you think her story somehow demonstrates "Russian collusion with the Trump campaign", maybe I'll look into it more.

Her story demonstrates a direct connection between Russia and the NRA. A group that donates heavily to the GOP. There's that connection. The indictment also discusses members of a political organization (that is obviously the GOP) coordinating in certain aspects as well. The NRA donated their largest sum ever the previous election cycle.

If you want to discuss rabbit hole like things... Cohen was the RNC Deputy Finance Chair

If you're characterizing your own writing as "blasting", you might have an over-inflated view of yourself.



Ignoring views from the opposing side...in my view, this will limit your intellectual growth.

Also, you should start putting your political predictions up against other posters. That will give you a true understanding of your status. Many, such as @Limbo Pete, are too scared to take that first step. That's why I have more respect for @HomerThompson and @Jack V Savage .

I don't ignore them. Some of the views (on both sides) are just simply intellectually dishonest and not worth the time.

For example, most pundits are trash. Really looking at acceptable pundits and interviewers: CNN - Cooper, Fox - Shep Smith, Chris Wallace, NBC - Maddow, Chuck Todd

Sadly journalists like Tim Russert and Larry King aren't on the main streams. They mostly shit on everyone these days.

Also, for a rather epic owning there's Lowell Bergman's interview of Mark Emmert several years ago. That's a classic

 

[Andy Capp]

I would agree, but I think the impact of turnout drop would be larger absent some hard evidence that the level of suppression had increased dramatically from 2012.

I found this article of interest although no conclusive of anything

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...as-a-record-number-of-americans-cast-ballots/

I'm not saying this is scientifically rigorous, but I think your answer is right here, "... as black voter turnout decreased, white turnout increased and the nonwhite share of the U.S. electorate remained flat since the 2012 election." If the Republican victory were solely due to gerrymandering, the turnout wouldn't be affected, just where the ballots were cast. And yes, maybe black people just wanted to stay home, but that's why I say it's my belief, not science.

 

[Strychnine]

high quality response. In depth, and well-thought out. Would read again.

Spoiler

 

[Gandhi]

I'm not saying this is scientifically rigorous, but I think your answer is right here, "... as black voter turnout decreased, white turnout increased and the nonwhite share of the U.S. electorate remained flat since the 2012 election." If the Republican victory were solely due to gerrymandering, the turnout wouldn't be affected, just where the ballots were cast.

Or blacks not showing up because no Obama or just being more apathetic over Hilary

 

[waiguoren]

I don't ignore them. Some of the views (on both sides) are just simply intellectually dishonest and not worth the time.

For example, most pundits are trash. Really looking at acceptable pundits and interviewers: CNN - Cooper, Fox - Shep Smith, Chris Wallace, NBC - Maddow, Chuck Todd

I agree with all this.

As for the other stuff, it's too far removed from Trump to be evidence of "Trump/Russia collusion". The only exception is the bit about Michael Cohen. I think you and I both believe that Cohen isn't sophisticated enough to coordinate the finances of an election-meddling operation.

 

[HomerThompson]

I agree with all this.

As for the other stuff, it's too far removed from Trump to be evidence of "Trump/Russia collusion". The only exception is the bit about Michael Cohen. I think you and I both believe that Cohen isn't sophisticated enough to coordinate the finances of an election-meddling operation.

Trump approved the Trump tower meeting, and Mueller has the phone record of his conversation. Cambridge Analytica, Wikileaks, and Roger Stone are the direct data connection with the hack. Stone had forewarning of it, and he passed the information to Trump.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I disagree with everyone I read. Here are some political types I read sometimes:

Jonathan Chait
Paul Krugman
Mark Penn
Susan Page
Tucker Carlson
Robert Reich
....

Krugman and Chait are terrific, but the others are garbage, and you seem pretty tightly aligned with Carlson so I'm not really seeing why you included him. I'd recommend subbing those people out for Scott Alexander, John Holbo, Noah Smith, Matt Bruenig, Jeet Heer, and Matt Yglesias if you want to be challenged with stuff outside your Breitbart bubble.

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

I agree with all this.

As for the other stuff, it's too far removed from Trump to be evidence of "Trump/Russia collusion". The only exception is the bit about Michael Cohen. I think you and I both believe that Cohen isn't sophisticated enough to coordinate the finances of an election-meddling operation.

Cohen may not be, but tRUmp may be. Why would tRUmp get his personal attorney (fixer) a spot on the RNC operational board? It makes little sense why Cohen was in that position

tRUmp being head of the GOP (by winning their primary and being the POTUS) connects tRUmp. Just like it would anyone else had won the primary and this shit came out. A political organization was directly working with a foreign government to achieve that foreign government's agenda within the US and other areas. Think about how fucked up that is. Yet you've consistently defended Russia. Mindboggling

 

[waiguoren]

Trump approved the Trump tower meeting

That's according to...Michael Cohen? He told the House and Senate Intelligence Committees that he didn't know about the meeting in advance.

Mueller has the phone record of his conversation

That's speculation.

Cambridge Analytica, Wikileaks, and Roger Stone are the direct data connection with the hack. Stone had forewarning of it, and he passed the information to Trump.

There is no evidence that Stone had prior knowledge of the hack. He tweeted about the Podesta brothers and their shady overseas business dealings as revealed in the Panama Papers.

 

[HomerThompson]

Cohen may not be, but tRUmp may be. Why would tRUmp get his personal attorney (fixer) a spot on the RNC operational board? It makes little sense why Cohen was in that position

tRUmp being head of the GOP (by winning their primary and being the POTUS) connects tRUmp. Just like it would anyone else had won the primary and this shit came out. A political organization was directly working with a foreign government to achieve that foreign government's agenda within the US and other areas. Think about how fucked up that is. Yet you've consistently defended Russia. Mindboggling

He thinks that Trump has been too tough on Russia!

 

[HomerThompson]

That's according to...Michael Cohen? He told the House and Senate Intelligence Committees that he didn't know about the meeting in advance.



That's speculation.



There is no evidence that Stone had prior knowledge of the hack. He tweeted about the Podesta brothers and their shady overseas business dealings as revealed in the Panama Papers.

According to me, ass clown. Don Jr. made a call to a blocked/private cell number right before the meeting. And the CA/Stone/Wikileaks stuff is why I'm so confident in my bet. Maybe if you were in a real IQ percentile, you'd have figured it out for yourself.

 

[waiguoren]

Krugman and Chait are terrific

Obviously, I disagree.

but the others are garbage

Have some humanity.

and you seem pretty tightly aligned with Carlson so I'm not really seeing why you included him

I have my own views. Sometimes I agree with Carlson, other times I don't.

I'd recommend subbing those people out for Scott Alexander, John Holbo, Noah Smith, Matt Bruenig, Jeet Heer, and Matt Yglesias if you want to be challenged with stuff outside your Breitbart bubble.

I've been reading Yglesias and Smith for many years. I'll look into the other four.

 

[Andy Capp]

Or blacks not showing up because no Obama or just being more apathetic over Hilary

But this is circular. Now we're back to knowing it happened but there being little way of determining how much. However, there's this,
"A record 137.5 million Americans voted in the 2016 presidential election, according to new data from the U.S. Census Bureau. Overall voter turnout – defined as the share of adult U.S. citizens who cast ballots – was 61.4% in 2016, a share similar to 2012 but below the 63.6% who say they voted in 2008."

I gather from this the overall national trend has been toward higher participation, but this time around fewer blacks turned out while the trend of increased participation continued for white voters. What would explain this change when it wasn't apparent in the previous 2 cycles?

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

According to me, ass clown. Don Jr. made a call to a blocked/private cell number right before the meeting. And the CA/Stone/Wikileaks stuff is why I'm so confident in my bet. Maybe if you were in a real IQ percentile, you'd have figured it out for yourself.

Jr also testified (IIRC) that he didn't know who he spoke to on that blocked number.

The CA/Stone/Wikileaks connection is pretty easy to make. Especially with all the communication between Stone/Wikileaks (add in Jr/Wikileaks) as well as the connections CA had to tRUmp (through Bannon and platform per the Mercers)

 

[waiguoren]

According to me, ass clown. Don Jr. made a call to a blocked/private cell number right before the meeting. And the CA/Stone/Wikileaks stuff is why I'm so confident in my bet. Maybe if you were in a real IQ percentile, you'd have figured it out for yourself.

You were "so confident" that you wouldn't accept a four-year term on the sig bet. You proposed three months and I had to bargain up to six months. Tick tock, my friend.

 

[HomerThompson]

Jr also testified (IIRC) that he didn't know who he spoke to on that blocked number.

The CA/Stone/Wikileaks connection is pretty easy to make. Especially with all the communication between Stone/Wikileaks (add in Jr/Wikileaks) as well as the connections CA had to tRUmp (through Bannon and platform per the Mercers)

Also, it's pretty obvious that CA shared the stolen Facebook user data with Russia. How else would they(Russia) know precisely where, who, and how to target voters in those crucial areas.

Trump won the election by less than 100,000 votes in 3 states.