Muay Thai Sucks for MMA

[AnotherOldGuy]

Muay Thai is one of the few Martial Arts to properly incorporate some form of grappling and striking.

If I had to choose 1 discipline and only 1, Muay Thai might be it. Wrestling only works because of time limits.

If only one style, easily BJJ. But actually if there were no time limits wrestling actually gets better -- you hold your opponent down until they're exhausted (might take an hour or two but it gets there).

MT is clearly a good striking style for MMA though.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

If there wasn't a 15 minute, 3x5 minute round time limit, wrestling would be far less effective.

Consider no time limits. Wrestler takes down opponent, and lays on top for several hours, slowly wearing them out. No time limits would be great for wrestlers, but very boring for fans.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

+ unified rules favor American wrestlers

Except for not allowing knees to grounded opponents (north to south knees to head especially -- its not non-wrestlers who are stuffing wrestlers shots), and not allowing head butts (which would be wrestlers's best weapons).

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Wrestling mostly works because you are not allowed to knee a downed opponent. If knees and foot stomps were allowed, the fooking wrestlers would think twice about shooting in.

Actually you have it backwards -- very few non-wrestlers are stuffing wrestler's shots so it wouldn't hurt wrestlers except against other wrestlers. And not allowing knees to the head from side control or north-south hurts wrestlers, because they often end up in those positions but aren't allowed to take advantage of it.

 

[Huligani]

Not sure why this is necro'd but I hope you guys destroyed TS. Whittaker might have a Karate background, but he's not using it in the cage like Wonderboy and Machida do.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

He used wrestling mainly to control his opponent, without it, he’d have nothing. Wrestling is his go-to, not Catch.

Catch is a form of wrestling.

 

[iwillbebackin3weeks]

boxing + wrestling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest

 

[Johnny_Knuckles]

boxing + wrestling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest

 

[Coconutwater]

Catch is a form of wrestling.

So is the folk style Saku primarily trained in to defeat the future Olympic Silver Medalist while he was still a Freshman and eventual become team co-captain.

Robinson stuff didn’t happen until his pure folk wrestling career ended.

 

[BLIND]

If there wasn't a 15 minute, 3x5 minute round time limit, wrestling would be far less effective.

Wouldn't the wrestler just stay on top for all eternity until the bottom guy tires out and gets pounded on ?

 

[rmongler]

So is the folk style Saku primarily trained in to defeat the future Olympic Silver Medalist while he was still a Freshman and eventual become team co-captain.

Robinson stuff didn’t happen until his pure folk wrestling career ended.

The point i imagine would be a fair certainty that Billy Robinson was also making sure Sakuraba got his practice in takedowns and rides. Within the context of submissions as well.

Considering Robinson's own speciality when he was active (low single), there's a fair chance it was not coincidental how Sakuraba also made judicious use of a killer low single in most of his matches.

 

[FlowchartRog]

Lmao, yea cuz using just your hands and darting in and out in a straight line is so much better then using knees elbows kick ,punches, clinch strikes and throws..plus flying techniques..

Noob detected

Boxing is too basic for MMA..the stance alone will lead to you getting grappled fucked

Karate is a better choice then boxing but its limited in its effectiveness in close and again little to no clinch work unless your studing a style that incorporates some of that...also it can be predictable in its approach alot of in and out in a straight line..like wonderboy and till..if timed correctly you can get put down like woodley did to both..

Muay thai is probably the most well rounded striking martial art , and in second would be kickboxing dutch or american



I know right? Lmao

WTF? Have you actually seen an elite boxing match? And any karate guys? It's the exact opposite of what you're saying, literally.

Boxers have the best, craftiest, most efficient footwork in the business - with a lot of lateral movement, pivots, and excellent balance and positioning. Karate guys just move in and out in a straight line, like Wonderboy and Sage.

The idea of Karate being better than boxing is fucking hilarious too. Karate is not a combat sport, most of the sparring and competitions are not even full contact. Karate was the first MA I did as a kid, and it's basically a joke if you actually want to fight, a bit like TKD.

The Karate guys who have had success in the UFC like Wonderboy, have solid kickboxing experience too. The only fighter that looks like a proper karate practitioner and has been highly successful in MMA is Machida, and even Machida trained boxing and MT, just had a strong Karate base and used it to good effect.

An example of how successful pure karate guys would be in MMA is basically Sage.

Cosmo Vs Sage was essentially Boxing Vs Karate. Cosmo used superior footwork, cut off the ring, used feints and superior punching power to decimate Sage with 1 punch.

 

[Steven_Universe]

Tbh Growing up I always thought Muay Thai was THEE backround needed to be succesful in standing MMA.
Yet it heavily relies on big gloves blocking strikes to your face. With no gloves or Little MMA gloves. You cant protect your face with those huge shields. You get clipped. Also as you saw in Shogun vs Jones, The footwork SUCKS. You get outworked by faster, Longer opponents.

I believe the best striking style for mma would be something like Whittaker's karate style, or MVP's style... Conor Mcgregors style.. or even a boxing style
Awesome kicks and footwork. Explosiveness.. Agility.. I feel like Muay Thai isn't practical. A katate or TKD styled guy will blitz on you easily, and move away before you can counter.

Have you heard of a guy named Anderson Silva?

 

[Paolo Delutis]

WTF? Have you actually seen an elite boxing match? And any karate guys? It's the exact opposite of what you're saying, literally.

Boxers have the best, craftiest, most efficient footwork in the business - with a lot of lateral movement, pivots, and excellent balance and positioning. Karate guys just move in and out in a straight line, like Wonderboy and Sage.

The idea of Karate being better than boxing is fucking hilarious too. Karate is not a combat sport, most of the sparring and competitions are not even full contact. Karate was the first MA I did as a kid, and it's basically a joke if you actually want to fight, a bit like TKD.

The Karate guys who have had success in the UFC like Wonderboy, have solid kickboxing experience too. The only fighter that looks like a proper karate practitioner and has been highly successful in MMA is Machida, and even Machida trained boxing and MT, just had a strong Karate base and used it to good effect.

An example of how successful pure karate guys would be in MMA is basically Sage.

Cosmo Vs Sage was essentially Boxing Vs Karate. Cosmo used superior footwork, cut off the ring, used feints and superior punching power to decimate Sage with 1 punch.

Lmao are you serious?

Sage? And cosmo is your exampled

Both karate and boxing are not enough to be successful in MMA this has been proven time and time again..

Muay thai is a better suited art for MMA crossover training then either karate or Boxing..

It has answers for all ranges of stand up in MMA

Long range
Short range
Mid range
Clinch range

The others dont

Then once you add in grappling boxing and karate are even more obsolete..atleast mauy thai has answers for takedowns or clinch work

 

[tramendous]

Cosmo Vs Sage was essentially Boxing Vs Karate. Cosmo used superior footwork, cut off the ring, used feints and superior punching power to decimate Sage with 1 punch.

Or maybe just maybe those things are not exclusive to boxing. Btw every art has to be backed up by other skillsets in mma. Herp derp, nick diaz isnt boxing, he threw a kick!

 

[Megatronlee]

Muay Thai is one of the few Martial Arts to properly incorporate some form of grappling and striking.

If I had to choose 1 discipline and only 1, Muay Thai might be it. Wrestling only works because of time limits.

Wrestling works because you can’t get UP off the ground

 

[FlowchartRog]

Or maybe just maybe those things are not exclusive to boxing. Btw every art has to be backed up by other skillsets in mma. Herp derp, nick diaz isnt boxing, he threw a kick!

They are boxing techniques. Cosmo is a MT guy and kickboxer, but he has obviously trained to box too, has a couple of pro boxing matches, and Cosmo's footwork, feints and right hand were closer to boxing than anything else.

And of course they're not exclusive to boxing, but that doesn't mean they're not boxing. Even Bruce Lee studied boxing's punching technique and had a lot of respect for boxing defence in particular. It's still boxing, even if it's transposed to whatever other discipline.

It would be like me showing you a GSP double leg and you saying "herp derp, that's not exclusive to the sport of wrestling". Well of course not, but the technique is still wrestling.

 

[tramendous]

They are boxing techniques. Cosmo is a MT guy and kickboxer, but he has obviously trained to box too, has a couple of pro boxing matches, and Cosmo's footwork, feints and right hand were closer to boxing than anything else.

And of course they're not exclusive to boxing, but that doesn't mean they're not boxing. Even Bruce Lee studied boxing's punching technique and had a lot of respect for boxing defence in particular. It's still boxing, even if it's transposed to whatever other discipline.

It would be like me showing you a GSP double leg and you saying "herp derp, that's not exclusive to the sport of wrestling". Well of course not, but the technique is still wrestling.

Karate guy throws a hook. Boxing fanboys tell us thats boxing. Its honestly really arrogant. Its like watching a judo guy do an armbar and then telling us he used bjj. Bro punching is not exclusive to boxing.

 

[FlowchartRog]

Lmao are you serious?

Sage? And cosmo is your exampled

Both karate and boxing are not enough to be successful in MMA this has been proven time and time again..

Muay thai is a better suited art for MMA crossover training then either karate or Boxing..

It has answers for all ranges of stand up in MMA

Long range
Short range
Mid range
Clinch range

The others dont

Then once you add in grappling boxing and karate are even more obsolete..atleast mauy thai has answers for takedowns or clinch work

The thing is, my post was mainly directed to your statement of boxers moving in a straight line. It couldn't be further from the truth, it's the exact opposite. Boxers have the best lateral movement and footwork in combat sports, and karate guys literally move in a straight line. Look at the likes of Lomachenko, Pacquiao, Floyd, even Canelo despite being much slower footed than the other 3.

Regarding what discipline is most successful - this is the wrestlebox era for a reason. Wrestling + boxing is as good as it gets overall imo.

The irony is that early boxing, pre queensbury rules, did allow wrestling and it was highly effective as expected. We've come full circle

Aldo is one of the best MT guys in MMA history, and he got run over 3 times by what was essentially just boxing.

 

[FlowchartRog]

Karate guy throws a hook. Boxing fanboys tell us thats boxing. Its honestly really arrogant. Its like watching a judo guy do an armbar and then telling us he used bjj. Bro punching is not exclusive to boxing.

Karate guy? Which karate guy are you talking about exactly?