Muay Thai or boxing as a striking base ?

[tramendous]

I watched a live event this guy getting ragdolled by some random japanese grappler lol
he's old as fuck though and was training only Muay Thai in preparation for that fight, duh

Hes had something like 350 kickboxing fights and made his mma debut in 2014 at 35 years old. Hes damaged goods before he even started and is impressive for what hes accomplished.

 

[TonOdanK]

Set up saenchai vs lomachenko with mma rules

 

[taugrim]

Appreciate people posting MT fighters they like. I hadn't seen Masato before.

 

[StanClarker]

Boxing is a better developed art. Muay Thai for maximum power. Skill vs. Brawn.

 

[aerius]

Im a muay thai guy. But i say boxing is a better base.

Its way more easy to learn new strikes, then to change your fighting stance from scratch.

Your fight stance and footwork is the very fundation of your fighting style.

And the traditional muay thai fighting stance, is just horrible for MMA.

Good luck breaking those habits, compared to getting a boxer to defend Kicks

Is it though? Here's Nong-O's stance, he was a Raja and Lumpinee stadium champ in multiple weight classes and one of the best technicians of the modern age.

And here's Jose Aldo's stance, the greatest FW champion and well known for his crisp footwork and legendary takedown defence.

Barely any difference there other than a slightly more upright upper body position in Aldo. There's nothing in his stance that prevents Nong-O from moving around and defending takedowns just as effectively as Aldo.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

That's not true. Jones is not a muay thai guy but the only person to ever beat Jones with boxing is Reyes. Prior to Reyes Noone has been able to beat him that way.

Jones is the true definition of a MT guy. He literally use all 8 limbs plus the clinch.

And Gus gave him all he could handle in their 1st fight with his boxing. Probably more so than Reyes actually. It's just Reyes' fight is still fresh in our minds and Jon embarrassed Gus in the second fight.

 

[Kono dio da!]

Boxing is a better developed art. Muay Thai for maximum power. Skill vs. Brawn.

Muay thai allows for greater versatility. Boxer is good if you're a masochist who loves the feeling of leg kicks.
Sorry I had to lol

 

[Poatan Power]

As a base? Absolutely boxing.

You can always add on to your base, such as knees, kicks, elbows, etc.

The footwork, head movement, fundamentals, etc. in boxing are fantastic to build on...i.e., a base.

Easily Muay Thai. How many top level UFC guy do you see relying solely on punches and defending punches? You need to learn those knees, kicks and defense from them also.

Is it though? Here's Nong-O's stance, he was a Raja and Lumpinee stadium champ in multiple weight classes and one of the best technicians of the modern age.

And here's Jose Aldo's stance, the greatest FW champion and well known for his crisp footwork and legendary takedown defence.

Barely any difference there other than a slightly more upright upper body position in Aldo. There's nothing in his stance that prevents Nong-O from moving around and defending takedowns just as effectively as Aldo.

I feel like you caught him in a step here. From watching his fights his feet are closer together like a more traditional MT stance. You sound more knowledgeable about it than me, though

 

[aerius]

I feel like you caught him in a step here. From watching his fights his feet are closer together like a more traditional MT stance. You sound more knowledgeable about it than me, though

Nong-O changes his style & stance a fair bit depending on who he's fighting and what he's trying to do. In a kick or clinch heavy fight like the ones he had against Singdam and Petchboonchu, he'll be in the narrower more upright stance of a traditional Nak Muay, when he's mixing things up more like his fights against Saenchai he'll be in more of a kickboxing/MMA stance. Saenchai is the same way as well, his stance changes a fair bit depending on his opponent and the way he's planning to fight him. Both Saenchai and Nong-O will also change their stances in the middle of a fight as they figure out and adjust to their opponents. Watching them fight is just freakin' cool, and seriously next level stuff.

 

[Gmork]

Easily Muay Thai. How many top level UFC guy do you see relying solely on punches and defending punches? You need to learn those knees, kicks and defense from them also.

How many fights are stopped due to punches vs kicks and knees?

Boxing fundamentals are essential. Boxing/Karate for my favorite striking back-rounds to go into MMA.

 

[Greta]

If Somrak (one of the Thais with the best boxing) fought Mayweather in a striking only bout, who do you think wins?

I think that reference might be lost on a lot of people.

https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/summer/1996/BOX/mens-featherweight.html

 

[William Huggins]

they dont use punch as much because they are all small guys with big gloves, you can't do much damage with your hands
One FC is doing some striking fights in a cage with mma gloves with some good thai fighters, let's see how that goes

as talking solely as striking base, traditional Muay thai is by far the most efficient, you can see when some mid grade random Muay Thai fighter goes to glory, and dominates everyone when the rules are completely in favor of dutch style kickboxers

You sound like someone that has no understanding of scoring in Muay Thai under Thai rules, punches are the lowest scoring, are you disputing this? Big gloves, you sound like someone that has never put gloves on, most stadiums in Thailand fight with 6oz gloves, 2oz more than most MMA gloves.

You have to be a troll.

 

[Blayt7hh]

If it’s your first martial art I would say MT for sure. It has you at least thinking about clenches and sweeps and has a lot more tools. If you’re already a great grappler and learning your first striking art the. That might be a different story.

Either way boxing is legit and so is MT. A guy training in either rod those arts will fuck up someone that’s not trained

 

[BigDramaShow26]

I don't know if that is what you mean, in a striking fight when all thai rules are allowed such as clinch, you think ANY boxer would stand a chance vs a elite Muay Thai fighter ? that's beyond ridiculous

Just in an MMA setting where both participants have trained in all styles, but maybe one is more versed at boxing and the other is more versed in Muy Thai.

There are too many variables either way. I feel like most Muy Thai fighters change most of their habits anyway.

 

[BigDramaShow26]

Best example is still Holly Holm vs. Valentina Shevchenko, where we have a world champion in boxing going up against a world champion in Muay Thai. Holly got her legs chopped with low kicks and lost the kicking exchanges, then got her punches countered as well, and when it got to the clinch she was thrown around and taken down despite being an entire weight division bigger.

Then we have their fights against Amanda Nunes. Holly was out-punched, head kicked, and finished in under a round even though the Sherdog collective was convinced her boxing footwork would keep her safe and allow her to frustrate Nunes. Valentina went the distance both times and arguably won a decision in the rematch. But apparently, Muay Thai has no defence or footwork, so says the Sherdog hive mind.



Kickboxing, not Muay Thai. The only good boxer with nice Muay Thai is Jorge Masvidal, the rest of them are Dutch or Brazilian style kickboxers. This includes TJ, Overeem, Barboza, and the rest of the guys that are often referred to as Muay Thai fighters. They're not. None of them have a Thai style clinch game or strike selection.

As for Thai boxers with good hands. Shevchenko.

Holly Holm dominated one of the least talented sports in the world. She has a lot of skill compared to most WMMA fighters and the boxing has given her incredible stamina, but I would definitely say Nunes and Shevchenko are better boxers than Holm even is.

Holm lost because she kept running right into check hooks. Shevchenko can go win any boxing belt at her weight tomorrow except for against the Puerto rican woman whose name escapes me. Heather Hardy had average skill, she is just tough.

I would also argue Holm's boxing ability has dropped a lot since she first started.

An example of boxing beating Muy Thai in WMMA is Rose beating Joanna.

 

[IanMoone]

Boxing isnt just punching, in the same way that muay thai isnt just the stuff you hit with.

Because boxing has less weapons to think about, the invisible stuff (like timing, distancing etc) get a lot more focus.

That translates to a stronger base to add the other weapons to.

 

[CPH]

I think that reference might be lost on a lot of people.

https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/summer/1996/BOX/mens-featherweight.html

It was a trick question of sorts. Nice to see that there are people around who know this story.

 

[Memeojima]

Muay thai is far superior and a more complete martial art. Boxers dont last 1 day in muay thai training

 

[CPH]

How many fights are stopped due to punches vs kicks and knees?

You're missing the point of what the extra weapons are about. Having a high level of competence with kicks, knees, elbows and knowing how to handle yourself in the clinch will either help to set up the finish or, as is often the case, help you win on points. A great MMA boxer can still win a lot of fights without those skills, but sooner or later, he will run into a guy who will make him pay.

Gustafsson lost to Jones because, even though he was dominating him with his boxing, Jones managed to score enough with kicks to keep the fight close, and then edged ahead by landing that spinning elbow.

Conor managed to beat Nate by majority decision in the rematch because of the emphasis he put on the low kick. It helped to set up the early knockdowns, it compromised Nate's lead leg and it allowed him to add 40 low kicks into his strike tally, which turned out to be crucial. Had Conor gone in trying to box with Nate, he would without a doubt have either lost the decision or been finished.

The problem for an MMA fighter that focuses on boxing only, is that he ends up not having the toolset to deal with an opponent who will go after him with a combination of punches, low kicks, middle kicks, step knees, push kicks, foot sweeps ...or who will just refuse to fight him at range and put a clinch clinic on him. Meanwhile, a fighter whose focus is Muay Thai, is learning how to neutralize the boxer. He might not outbox the boxer in a boxing match, but he is definitely training to deal with him under MMA's ruleset, which allows all standup weapons and more or less unlimited clinch.

 

[SourPatchKid]

Dutch kickboxing correct answer, highly aggressive four five punch combos finished with the low kick