Most fighters dont really improve that much (after a certain point)

[Legendary]

Whenever x fighters loses a fight, its often said" He just needs to go to Dagestan and work on his wrestling."
but how often do fighters make actually adjustments after a few years that actually change their game?

When a fighter does have a notable improvement, its impressive, but its exceptionally rare. Even Jones is just the same wrestler with with subs, kicks and so so punching ability that he's always had since his early UFC days.

This is even more true once the fighter is 30+, then its more about preserving what you have built.

 

[Luthien]

Conor called it being stuck in the mud

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Fighters improve a lot over time, it's just that their peers are also improving too. It's only really the physical side that declines.

You'd need someone to improve at a faster rate than their peers to stick out, like say, Kennedy Nzechukwu has been recently.

 

[jooohnmatrix]

Gsp, overeem, arlovski,texeira a couple others changed and improved for the better.

 

[ArtardFiesta]

do you train at all? the whole point of training is improving and always adding to your game.
jon jones may seem the change because what he did was working.

with age u can't push as hard and you may train differently.

most of these guys should be better then they were 2 years ago. it is high level though so the adjustments may seem subtle

 

[linvillegorge]

I don't think I'd agree with this. Fighters tend to stay who they are stylistically for the most part. Wrestlers will wrestle. Strikers will strike. But I disagree that they don't improve within those styles. The guys who don't are the ones who never make it to contender status or the ones who are on that track but fizzle out.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Oliveira and Maia are two who immediately come to mind who progressed from where they were when they started.

 

[linvillegorge]

Gsp, overeem, arlovski,texeira a couple others changed and improved for the better.

For a more recent example, look at Johnny Walker. He went through a 1-4 stretch fighting top guys but retooled his game and now finds himself right back in top contention.

 

[linvillegorge]

Oliveira and Maia are two who immediately come to mind who progressed from where they were when they started.

RDA too. Jeremy Stephens uppercutted his cranium into low Earth orbit in his first UFC fight and he looked pretty much clueless on the feet at that point. I would've never dreamed that guy would've gone on to become a champion and a very competent striker.

 

[PhilMcCavity]

It’s because one they get their greasy mitts on a couple ufc hot dog branders a life size cut out of Cheeto Ortiz they motivation goes right down the terlet. What more does a man need you fuckin goofs?

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

Conor called it being stuck in the mud

Touch Butt Forever!

 

[fortheo]

A lot of fighters improve, it's just a slow progression and hard to notice fight to fight unless you're a nerd that really focuses on that fighter.

 

[Jokke]

 

[DOMMA]

Gaethje showed remarkable improvement from his early UFC fights to his recent win over Rafael Fiziev. Looked like a different guy.

Volk also improved a ton since his early fights. Looked average in his first UFC fights and is now in GOAT conversations.

 

[jeff7b9]

A lot of fighters improve, it's just a slow progression and hard to notice fight to fight unless you're a nerd that really focuses on that fighter.

Agreed.

At the highest levels the improvements are going to be subtle.

Better use of feints and angles, better distance management, more efficient pacing to maintain cardio and power thru the fight. Better control or passing. Smarter shots, mixing them in with strikes to cover distance safer and disguise the shot.

Rarely will you see the complete rebirth, like a Khalil Roundtree that comes back from Thailand kicking dudes legs off, or RDA and Werdum that transformed into highly effective strikers relatively late. More often it is just polishing and refining.

 

[Legendary]

I don't think I'd agree with this. Fighters tend to stay who they are stylistically for the most part. Wrestlers will wrestle. Strikers will strike. But I disagree that they don't improve within those styles. The guys who don't are the ones who never make it to contender status or the ones who are on that track but fizzle out.

Do I think Max improved over his debut? Hell yeah I do. Has he improved in the last 3 years? Dont know about that one, I think he is about the same since then.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

I'm not sure I can agree with this -- there are just too many fighters that I feel seemed to have limited success only to transform their careers through hard work and evolution of their game -- RDA, Moreno, Cannonier, Costa, Blachowicz, Anthony Smith, Fabricio Werdum, etc.; there are so many fighters that honestly I would never have forecasted would challenge for the belt or become champion that just leveled up to the point where they were among the best in their respective divisions.

 

[linvillegorge]

Do I think Max improved over his debut? Hell yeah I do. Has he improved in the last 3 years? Dont know about that one, I think he is about the same since then.

Everybody has a ceiling. Max's ceiling was one of the greatest featherweights of all time. He'd still be the champ of Volk hadn't came along. That's just a bad match up for him. I'm not sure there's any improvements he could make that would give him a better chance against Volk.

 

[Legendary]

A lot of fighters improve, it's just a slow progression and hard to notice fight to fight unless you're a nerd that really focuses on that fighter.

I think that's why I said "that much".

I think the Khalil Roundtree comment was more indicative of where I was coming from. There are certainly improvements, but after a certain point fighters are like 90% of their potential and the improvements are marginal at best. There are certainly exceptions, but what Im saying is still mainly true.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Whenever x fighters loses a fight, its often said" He just needs to go to Dagestan and work on his wrestling."
but how often do fighters make actually adjustments after a few years that actually change their game?

When a fighter does have a notable improvement, its impressive, but its exceptionally rare. Even Jones is just the same wrestler with with subs, kicks and so so punching ability that he's always had since his early UFC days.

This is even more true once the fighter is 30+, then its more about preserving what you have built.

I think it's not so black and white...

Fighting is a mixture of skill... athletics and tactics..

Each one of these have there own caps or peaks for each person ...

So while a fighter can only maybe change or improve a certain amount of a particular skill it doesnt mean there not improving elsewhere ...

Just looking at skill alone you could say your correct ...but fighting requires all three things i mentioned above to be successful..

U can have a BJJ stylist with fantastic grappling skill but poor athletics and cardio for fighting MMA...well if that same fighter works on his cardio and athletics and improves it...then he's now a more effective BJJ specialist/stylists...so although his skill level might have remained stagnant because he's improved his physical side of fighting hes improved as a fighter and changed and made his skills more dangerous...


Same goes for fight IQ and Tactics