"MMA still in diapers, next gen of athletes would be too dangerous for UFC's own good"

[Rubios]

Yesterday I was taking to a friend that runs the MMA classes in a gym. He's a John Doe, and so am I.

But he's training people, specially kids and youngsters, with no experience in martial arts at all that jump right into MMA.

He told me something that sounds very obvious in retrospective.

If you don't just "mix" martial arts but train a dude to maximize his performance given the rule set... You come out with very dangerous, fight ending and career altering techniques.

He was not talking about woo woo stuff. He's a whatever trainer but a brainiac in sports science. With an actual degree, not bro-science.

Some examples he offered.

Clavicles are very easy to break.

Learning to check kicks with the knee from the very beginning makes anyone a leg breaker.

Breaking an arm from a standup position is relatively easy if you trade eating some body punches in order to catch an arm eventually.

Faking a wrestling/TD attempt and give up the scrimmage (I dunno if you call it this way, all the arm positioning stuff head to head) and elbowing the fuck of the opponent's head.

Hitting legal trigger points in the back of a grappler (rhomboid, trapezius) "instantly" numbs this muscles, making him lose his strenght.

From the top of my head.

Obviously, he is not teaching that and doesn't want the sport to head towards this way.

But he feels it's the natural evolution of the sport.

 

[moreorless87]

I feel like this has been the great false promise of MMA for so many years. The idea that "MMA since day one" fighters would emerge and push the sport forward massively.

That this has not happen I would argue really reveals the nature of most MMA training, its mostly focused on rounding out the skills of fighters so they can exploit their existing strength. Most MMA training tends to be simplified versions of other MA's which can be taught in that fashion more quickly.

 

[Rubios]

You have a point, sure, but I don't know ANY fighter from the actual rooster that started "MMA from day one".
And, yeah, top training teams nowadays keep improving different martial arts individually and mixing it up in sparring.
You can't simply train a guy with maaany years of MT muscle memory to start checking in a totally different way, i.e.

You'd have to admit that his takes make total sense.

 

[Leinster Rugby]

rooster

Also not from the current roster but Rory MacDonald I believed trained full mma from day 1

 

[Rubios]

Excuse my English, I'm from Spain.

Sorry for Topuria's cringe, BTW.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Jones, GSP, Fedor, Khabib, Aldo etc etc represent the ceiling of how good MMA fighters are gonna get unless we turn into transhumanist half cyborgs or something.

 

[tritestill]

Ok brother!

 

[Xoleth]

Clavicles are prone to injuries (Till knows better), but how do you break them in a fight?

Checking kicks is difficult, though. Many have a problem with this. Strickland learned it very well, actually. I was surprised. He was not good at checking kicks.

"Hitting legal trigger points in the back of a grappler" - I also thought about that. Or about hitting the sternum more frequently.

Excuse my English, I'm from Spain.

Sorry for Topuria's cringe, BTW.

When he fights, he represents Georgia.
When he talks, he represents Spain.
Es lo que es.

 

[Harlekin]

Secret teachings from a guy who trains kids.

Yes works, if your opponent just stands there and does nothing.
Just like when your trainer shows his techniques.

 

[Corrado Soprano]

MMA has actually regressed in skill & talent.

 

[Rubios]

I'm a huge fan of MMA since the PRIDE days, but maybe as a """"fighter"""" I've never been beyond awful so I can't see where my friend's statements fail. Hell, I actually never competed.

But, training box/MT/some ground game for half of my lifetime, I don't see the flaws on his reasoning.

Can you point out at them? It's an actual question out of real interest.

 

[GiganticMeat]

I feel like this has been the great false promise of MMA for so many years. The idea that "MMA since day one" fighters would emerge and push the sport forward massively.

That this has not happen I would argue really reveals the nature of most MMA training, its mostly focused on rounding out the skills of fighters so they can exploit their existing strength. Most MMA training tends to be simplified versions of other MA's which can be taught in that fashion more quickly.

I think this is because people by nature have things they gravitate to/are better at. MMA has so much to it that if you try to just teach someone everything, with no specialization or strong points, they turn into a kind of generic wet blanket fighter. It is also arguably impossible to be good at everything, in the first place.

Also there must be countless fighters on the roster now that started in MMA at least for serious training (no kids karate/JJ or whatever)

 

[JustforBROCK]

Yesterday I was taking to a friend that runs the MMA classes in a gym. He's a John Doe, and so am I.

But he's training people, specially kids and youngsters, with no experience in martial arts at all that jump right into MMA.

He told me something that sounds very obvious in retrospective.

If you don't just "mix" martial arts but train a dude to maximize his performance given the rule set... You come out with very dangerous, fight ending and career altering techniques.

He was not talking about woo woo stuff. He's a whatever trainer but a brainiac in sports science. With an actual degree, not bro-science.

Some examples he offered.

Clavicles are very easy to break.

Learning to check kicks with the knee from the very beginning makes anyone a leg breaker.

Breaking an arm from a standup position is relatively easy if you trade eating some body punches in order to catch an arm eventually.

Faking a wrestling/TD attempt and give up the scrimmage (I dunno if you call it this way, all the arm positioning stuff head to head) and elbowing the fuck of the opponent's head.

Hitting legal trigger points in the back of a grappler (rhomboid, trapezius) "instantly" numbs this muscles, making him lose his strenght.

From the top of my head.

Obviously, he is not teaching that and doesn't want the sport to head towards this way.

But he feels it's the natural evolution of the sport.

Lol thanks for letting me know what the dad who teaches the BJJ class at your local Y thinks.

Lol Jesus people are fucking idiots.

 

[GiganticMeat]

"Hitting legal trigger points in the back of a grappler" - I also thought about that. Or about hitting the sternum more frequently.

Any details on how you would go about doing that? I don't want to call bullshitsu, it sounds intriguing

 

[moreorless87]

I think this is because people by nature have things they gravitate to/are better at. MMA has so much to it that if you try to just teach someone everything, with no specialization or strong points, they turn into a kind of generic wet blanket fighter. It is also arguably impossible to be good at everything, in the first place.

Also there must be countless fighters on the roster now that started in MMA at least for serious training (no kids karate/JJ or whatever)

When your "turning pro" as well that tends to mean you actually have to be taking fights which means getting in fighting shape, cutting, maybe game planning for one opponent, etc which is going to leave less time for building your skill set.

 

[GiganticMeat]

I'm a huge fan of MMA since the PRIDE days, but maybe as a """"fighter"""" I've never been beyond awful so I can't see where my friend's statements fail. Hell, I actually never competed.

But, training box/MT/some ground game for half of my lifetime, I don't see the flaws on his reasoning.

Can you point out at them? It's an actual question out of real interest.

Well the one I wanted to address is the leg kick one. What makes a leg kick check different in MMA to you? As in how would you hurt someone's leg differently than just checking it like they do in MT?

The elbow/takedown one I also don't get. It seems like from that angle you wouldn't be in good position for one. Maybe an up/reverse elbow? Dan Henderson did that once I believe. Since you'd be well below their head

I also think the answer is that there's sort of an honor code in MMA/fighting to where a lot of fighters wouldn't want to perform "career ending" moves like instant bone breaks

If the general point is there's a lot more advancement to come... I do agree. But playing to the ruleset (I don't know if you meant that literally) makes MMA/fighting regress. Like you can't win a real fight by dropping to your knees, making you immune to kicks and knees, and then hold the dude down til the audience falls asleep and the judges reward you a decision. Not in a fight. But maybe that's the best way to win with the current shitty ruleset. Idk

I think creativity is lacking, but so is the environment to foster it

 

[Rubios]

If your upper chest is not very developed, and this is a body structure matter, so your clavicles are exposed (not fat JJ, Adesanya, Pereira... well, I'd say that's the case for many fighters), an upward or downward elbow will break your clavicle very easily.

An extended arm throwing a body shot, if catched (you'd have to eat some to get it, right) needs little leverage and moment to break from an elbow hiperextension.

 

[Odoylerules4lyf]

Is your friend Rex Kwon Do?

Hitting trigger points in the back to paralyze people? What is this shit, Hokuto no Ken fist of the North Star stuff? Why can white belts make threads? Your buddy owns a mcdojo

 

[AmonTobin]

Your friend sounds like Bas Rutten.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

I call BS.

None of those things in the OP are easy to do against a skilled opponent.

For example:

"Learning to check kicks with the knee from the very beginning makes anyone a leg breaker." When Chris Weidman broke Silva's leg by checking with his knee, he said he specifically trained for that. How many other legs did he break? Why is he not a chronic "leg breaker"?

And if it was "easy" to break someone's collar bone in an MMA fight, how come we don't see everyone doing it and collarbone strikes getting banned now that we're 30-something years into MMA?

"Breaking an arm from a standup position is relatively easy if you trade eating some body punches in order to catch an arm eventually."



No it's not. Karate and other traditional martials arts schools have taught those techniques forever, and MMA has clearly demonstrated that those techniques are dang near impossible to pull off against a non-compliant opponent.

Tell your friend that he's silly.