MMA fighters that don't "Spar"

[aries]

The idea is if you're 10 years into your career, what can you get out of sparring that you can't get out of a top quality mitt holder?

If you improve then I think the level of sparring partners needs to improve to match or just surpass your abilities. It's the same mechanism as when an up and comer has their first showing against a tricky veteran. They usually learn a lot by the experience.

The difference with pads is you don't really get a proper live experience. Yes they can call random combinations and tap you when they see openings but for me it can't replace good sparring.

 

[Sinister]

^This, I wouldn't say the two are interchangeable being as with structured sparring the opponent is never really looking to cooperate in any way. If a pad holder did that, then it would just BE sparring, only you know...holding pads.

 

[Kin]

I'm very interested in hearing how this works... Because I feel like I NEED to spar in order to stay sharp. But I've taken so many hits in the last 8 years that I wish I had some alternative to sparring so as not to get punchier. I've definitely reduced the frequency and amount of hard sparring I do, but still... very intrigued by these successful training camps that allegedly do not include sparring.

 

[TheFinerDetails]

I feel like I don't spar enough. I used to spar on every training day, which I loved, but coming to a new gym where sparring is minimal, I feel like I'm getting super good at pads, but then I'm not utilising what I learned on pads because of how little we spar.
I've personally experienced the 30 people pairing off sparring all on the same mat style, and it's atrocious. What exactly am I supposed to be learning when I'm going relative to another persons skill level (be that higher or lower than my own), at 25%, when there are 15 other pairs around us sparring, and the coach being part of the session? There is only so much that you can pick up on your own technique before it becomes a job for someone else looking outside to tell you what to do.

ALSO, people move. I don't think many pad holders emulate this enough. If you can land a 8 shot combo in the middle of a ring in Muay Thai, you are probably gonna be the next champion. I think they under-emphasise how much people move. I guarantee you that majority of guys move backwards/in-out CONSTANTLY in Muay Thai. It's not the stand and shoot style that it used to be anymore. This is why I think sparring is very beneficial.

 

[fluffball]

Lawler came up in MFS, which was infamous for (if the stories are true) basically just street fighting in the guise of sparring. New student comes in? Have him fight Tim Sylvia at 100% power and speed.

That has to be taken into account when looking at the subject, even if it is exaggerated. And I suspect it isn't really exaggerated because there are so many similar stories from other early gyms like the Lion's Den and Chute Boxe.

 

[Jukai]

There are no ranked MMA fighters that does NO sparring.. Come on now.

Rogan was talking about hard sparring. He's claiming some guys no longer go hard in the gym, focusing on technical sparring. Think the way Thai fighters do it... except for Thai fighters, it makes sense because they are fighting twice a month instead of three times a year. Their hard sparring is in the ring.

 

[fluffball]

At some point in the very near future, Lawler's chin is going to go the way of the Liddell. His background and his fights have been unusually brutal. He's VERY near the limit of hard punches a human can take.

 

[KILL KILL]

Lawler came up in MFS, which was infamous for (if the stories are true) basically just street fighting in the guise of sparring. New student comes in? Have him fight Tim Sylvia at 100% power and speed.

That has to be taken into account when looking at the subject, even if it is exaggerated. And I suspect it isn't really exaggerated because there are so many similar stories from other early gyms like the Lion's Den and Chute Boxe.

I remember when Jens Pulver was fighting in WEC and they showed a highlight of him ko'ing a guy with a headkick at Militech's. Those guys went hard.

 

[fluffball]

I remember when Jens Pulver was fighting in WEC and they showed a highlight of him ko'ing a guy with a headkick at Militech's. Those guys went hard.

Ya a lot of those guys have come out and been like "wtffffff were we doing."

 

[PivotPunch]

At some point in the very near future, Lawler's chin is going to go the way of the Liddell. His background and his fights have been unusually brutal. He's VERY near the limit of hard punches a human can take.

Tbf then there are guys like Mark Hunt whose chin isn't what it used to be but is still average at worst and that at 40 y/o after a lengthy kickboxing and MMA career in which he took a ton of punches especially early in his career

 

[shpboris]

Great thread that covers the levels of intensity in sparring and what each level is suitable for:

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f11/levels-sparring-visual-aids-2688481/

 

[Yodsanan]

Saw an interview with Gabriel Varga saying he does a light sparring session once a week, and he's one of the most technical guys in the division.

 

[DoctorTaco]

If you improve then I think the level of sparring partners needs to improve to match or just surpass your abilities. It's the same mechanism as when an up and comer has their first showing against a tricky veteran. They usually learn a lot by the experience.

The difference with pads is you don't really get a proper live experience. Yes they can call random combinations and tap you when they see openings but for me it can't replace good sparring.

Solid point. I think you can get good rounds in with these types without Incurring or even risking serious brain damage though.

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f11/levels-sparring-visual-aids-2688481/

great thread don't know how I missed that.

even when they say "not spar at all" I think it refers to a specific camp like when Hunt got called to replace Cain in Mexico all he had to worry about was conditioning and making weight plus Mark Hunt looks like he's sparred enough for a few lifetimes so that was a no brainer.

IMO unless you have a fight lined up or only after a long time of training you should be sparring hard;

I was used to light sparring and recently started training with the gym's fight team and really it's not very productive. it happens that I'm not working and was wanting to push myself but what's the point of risking injury, getting busted noses/black eyes, feeling banged up all the time? I think even my sex drive was affected.

if I was sparring hard from the start I probably would've given up after a beating. in my town there are a lot of coaches who don't compete but have this war mentality at the gym.

 

[shpboris]

great thread don't know how I missed that.

even when they say "not spar at all" I think it refers to a specific camp like when Hunt got called to replace Cain in Mexico all he had to worry about was conditioning and making weight plus Mark Hunt looks like he's sparred enough for a few lifetimes so that was a no brainer.

IMO unless you have a fight lined up or only after a long time of training you should be sparring hard;

I was used to light sparring and recently started training with the gym's fight team and really it's not very productive. it happens that I'm not working and was wanting to push myself but what's the point of risking injury, getting busted noses/black eyes, feeling banged up all the time? I think even my sex drive was affected.

if I was sparring hard from the start I probably would've given up after a beating. in my town there are a lot of coaches who don't compete but have this war mentality at the gym.

Yep, great thread indeed. I especially like the idea of clearly defining from the beginning the level of the sparring.

Because sometimes you expect full sparring to get the clear idea where you stand now, but the opponent just tapping you lightly - kind of a hint - don't go too hard. Or vise versa - you are in mindset to work on some technical stuff, but opponent goes to war.

The only thing that is not covered in this thread IMO - is the level of the opposition.
Sometimes it is good to spar against inferior guys. Sometimes it is good vs more experienced. All depends on the goal, IMO.

 

[Sinister]

The second video I posted, actually, was a very good guy against a so-so guy who was very new to sparring. The first two guys, I think their movement demonstrates their skill, and the hard sparring is obvious, they're very good. The last video featured two guys who have held titles.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Sinister makes a good point about how the style of sparring in MMA gyms may turn some fighters off. When I was at a boxing/Muay Thai gym, sparring was typically done in the ring with at least one coach watching, and only two people sparred at a time. Whereas at the MMA gyms I've been at, everyone pairs off and spars on the mats. The coach often spars with us. I'm not a huge fan of that style of sparring, and I can see why other fighters wouldn't want to do it. If I'm sparring, I don't want to be on the lookout for other fighters so I don't bump into them, and I want some feedback from a coach afterwards.

But isnt that mostly for recreationalists and maybe amateurs?

That is how you learn. I figure pro MMA fighters have plenty of experience so they do need the gym wars to get better and learn.

But then I remember reading about Mike Tyson having tougher sparring matches than his pro fights. Cus D'Amato assembled a who's who of sparring partners for Tyson.

 

[Train.Harder]

I hear that Sage Northcutt doesn't spar. They say he just does Katas and stuff. (Seriously)

He just got signed to the UFC too. Looks like a killer out there too, and he's only 19. I'm pretty excited to see what he can do. Definitely a fighter to watch.

 

[LJD]

But isnt that mostly for recreationalists and maybe amateurs?

That is how you learn. I figure pro MMA fighters have plenty of experience so they do need the gym wars to get better and learn.

But then I remember reading about Mike Tyson having tougher sparring matches than his pro fights. Cus D'Amato assembled a who's who of sparring partners for Tyson.

I've seen that type of sparring done by all levels of fighters, from hobbyists to amateurs to pros. I'm not sure what the major MMA camps do, but from what I've read, it sounds like Greg Jackson's gym also has large groups sparring around each other.

I don't think it's a good way to learn. Just like you need coaches to point out what you're doing wrong on the pads or when learning a technique, you need someone to point out what you're doing wrong while sparring.

 

[shpboris]

The second video I posted, actually, was a very good guy against a so-so guy who was very new to sparring. The first two guys, I think their movement demonstrates their skill, and the hard sparring is obvious, they're very good. The last video featured two guys who have held titles.

I meant, that in that thread you explain what sparring levels are and what the purpose of each level.

But one thing could be added IMO. The selection of the sparring partner with certain level depending on your goal. For example, it may be good to spar against inferior guy if you want to try some new things ...